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[Music]

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Paul Campbell's joining us as guest host

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this week as David B Edna takes a

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further hiatus from the show the big

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question that's in my mind here

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especially now we have all this stuff

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going on the media in America you know

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we have the conservative media the

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liberal media we have supposedly the

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moderate media and everybody putting a

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spin on what's going on so before we

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discuss how UFOs may be treated or

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paranormal subjects by the media Paul

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what about the Canadian media how does

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it look from Nova Scotia

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well hygiene and tied to the pair cast

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listenership you know the media is the

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media in Canada we have what you would

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call them liberal media and we also have

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a conservative media in the sense that

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there's a national newspaper called the

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National Post that tends to take more

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conservative positions although most

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Americans would probably find them our

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conservative positions to be somewhat

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centrist and then we have other

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newspapers that take what we would call

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a more liberal or centrist position

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which most Americans would probably find

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quite liberal so you know the terms

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conservative and liberal and centrist

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very not just from country to country

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but even from region to region if you're

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watching news in New England which we

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get here I think you'll find that it's

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probably quite different than the news

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that I see when I travel to Texas or New

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Mexico or places in the southwest where

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you might expect to find a more

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conservative culture just generally so

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you know depending on where you are

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there's going to be differences in

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reportage as it were but in how in terms

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of how the UFO subject has been treated

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I I've never really discerned a

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difference between say Fox News which

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you would consider I supposed to be a

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conservative outlet and you know the New

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York Times which is generally considered

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to be more liberal outlet

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I think they generally if they cover

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UFOs at all or a UFO story at all

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they generally cover it all in the same

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way I don't think there's a conservative

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or liberal angle to UFOs unless maybe a

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politician and you know like five

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Symington gets involved and perhaps he's

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of a political party and so maybe the

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other side takes a swipe at him but

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generally speaking I think the media

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covers when they do choose to cover UFOs

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in North America at least covers it

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pretty much the same way conservative

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liberal centrist doesn't really matter

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they all serve ative or liberal way of

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laughing at UFOs laughter is the same

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despite the political persuasion pretty

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much the only thing that might change is

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the accent in the speech pattern that

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comes before the actual laughter so a

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Texan would laugh and talk perhaps

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differently than someone from Boston and

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certainly differently than somebody from

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Ontario or Alberta but the laughter is

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the same and generally speaking they

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they do treat it usually with at least a

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wink and a nudge and some form of it's

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not outright laughter you know well okay

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we kind of have to report this but we

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don't take it terribly seriously there

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are media outlets every now and then

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you'll see something that's a little

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different the United Kingdom and I think

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this might have something to do with

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Nick Pope's profile over there the

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United Kingdom seems to take it a little

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more seriously but I think that's

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largely because they're in the midst of

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the Ministry of Defence releasing

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documents so there's an actual news

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story there you have the government

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getting involved in Sam oh look here's

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all these documents we're an

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investigations there's nothing to it but

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at least that's a news story and you

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have to take that kind of seriously when

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the Ministry of Defence is sort of

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throwing these or not throwing these for

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releasing all these documents so I think

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the story is different over there than

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what the story is over here at least at

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the moment now if you had that kind of

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release of documentation in the United

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States then I think you might see the

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story change the problem is in the

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United States you've pretty much got you

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had that release of documentation years

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ago that project Bluebook files have

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been in the public record for decades

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and so when people talk about disclosure

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well it's happened folks I mean the kind

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of disclosure you're seeing in places

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like New Zealand and the United Kingdom

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in Canada that's already happened in the

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United States all those documents that

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their major investigative body did have

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been released you can go to a website

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called a project Bluebook archive and

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and you can go through all the Blue Book

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Records many of which haven't really

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been looked at yet even though they're

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there

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so the story is different in different

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places - I don't think it's a

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conservative and liberal thing I think

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the story is what drives the response

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and if you have as you do in the United

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Kingdom at the moment or even in New

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Zealand a release is documentation from

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an official source well that gets taken

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a little more seriously than maybe a

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story of three guys driving down the

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highway outside Lubbock Texas one night

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after having had a few and they see some

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lights in the sky and then you know

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between those two extremes the story

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there's always a different story in

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there so Stephenville when the

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Stephenville case happened and i don't

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know what Stephenville was but i think

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that gets some serious reportage you

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know not quite as serious as the war in

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Afghanistan but in the UFO world

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everything is relative so I think that

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got some serious reportage I think the

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O'Hare case a few years ago against some

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serious reportage because those were

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cases whatever they were whatever

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happened that involved credible people

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and some interesting things going on and

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in Stephenville in a very interesting

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place and then O'Hare in a very

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interesting place you know the

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president's ranch and one of the world's

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major airports so I think that's the

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story and I think that's why you saw

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something more than just the usual haha

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at least initially when it came to those

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cases so I think it's the story gene

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that drives did not any political

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persuasion what about the stories that

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there may be some kind of conspiracy

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between the the government and the press

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to keep the information from being

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disclosed we did a show about that a few

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weeks ago well I would say that those

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kind of stories from my perspective or

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exactly why the media laughs at the UFO

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subject because as far as I can tell

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there is a hint of any solid evidence

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that would point to first of all you'd

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need okay you have to have aliens the

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aliens have to have talked to the United

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States government it's always the

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American government nobody ever

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complains about the Burundian government

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or you know the other thing is here why

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would the aliens talk to the Burundian

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government has to be the President of

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the United States the CIA which is very

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American I love my southern cousins but

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as all Canadians do but the United

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States is very insular to look at itself

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and

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this is happening in the United States

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well obviously can't be happening

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elsewhere and if aliens are coming here

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from Zeta Reticuli one two or three

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surely they would stop in at the White

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House or the CIA headquarters before it

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I mean why would they go to Burundi is

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here they might actually be devoted

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right now to helping Barack Obama give

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up the smoking habit exactly that's

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that's entirely possible although

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somehow I doubt it but you know if

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aliens were coming here is Sam Friedman

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it's often fond of saying he has no idea

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why they'd be coming here and then he

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lists 30 or 40 reasons well maybe some

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of those reasons they would look at us

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and they would say well you know to us

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Burundi is as developed as you know the

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United States as developed as as

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Argentina they're all the same day

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aliens from Zeta Reticuli because to

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them were sort of all best dogs we maybe

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we understand 30 words that the aliens

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can speak so it's it's very hubristic of

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any particular nationality or any

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particular group of people to say well

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of course the aliens would want to talk

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to us because we're the most advanced

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race or culture or civilization on this

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planet well yes maybe to us well the

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other thing is here in the movies Star

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Trek before the voyage home they want to

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talk to humpback whales and if they

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couldn't hear a response from the

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humpback whales they'll destroy the

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planet which is a bit far-fetched but

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what they were trying to get at I think

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what they were trying to get at in the

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Star Trek in that movie which I think

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most people considered to be probably

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the best of the original series movies

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that we're done is you know there's

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things going on in our planet there's

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there's all sorts of other life-forms

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here who knows what the aliens if they

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are aliens and if they are coming here

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who knows what would interest them I

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don't think that if aliens from Zeta

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Reticuli are coming here the inner

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workings of American healthcare and the

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congressional system or you know in

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Canada provincial versus federal

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jurisdiction questions or even things

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like war and peace on this plan I'm just

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not convinced that those would be

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terribly interesting to them I think if

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they're here they're here for for other

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reasons and it might not have anything

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to do with us

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and that's the kind of thing that people

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like Jacques Vallee would look at and he

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would say well look you know if it is

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aliens from Zeta Reticuli that's the

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least interesting of the possibilities

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people like mag my good friend the late

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Mack Tony's I think a lot of the things

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that drew people like them away from the

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extra-terrestrial hypothesis was the

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questioning of well look if they've been

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here for 50 or 60 years

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why haven't they made themselves known I

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mean what possible reason would they

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have for not making themselves known if

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I walk into a house that has three dogs

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I don't sort of try and walk around the

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dogs so that the dogs don't I mean that

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assuming I'm a friendly you know I know

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the people in the house I don't try and

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hide myself from the dogs I just ignore

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the dogs but you know I walk right by

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them and I I don't think there's they

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people like Mac and I don't want to

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speak for Mac or valet but I'm the

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impression I always get from them is

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they look at the extra-terrestrial

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hypothesis and say well that's the least

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sensible of the bunch of the paranormal

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hypotheses it doesn't really make any

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sense because surely something would

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have happened by now why would they just

276
00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:06,120
keep flitting about in the atmosphere

277
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:09,570
for 60 years or more longer and then you

278
00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:11,130
get into the abduction stuff well why

279
00:10:14,810 --> 00:10:12,990
would they abduct thousands or millions

280
00:10:16,970 --> 00:10:14,820
depending on who you talk of people as

281
00:10:18,650 --> 00:10:16,980
Kevin Randle said to me once surely you

282
00:10:20,780 --> 00:10:18,660
can take a sampling of the population

283
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:20,790
you know in about five years if you're

284
00:10:24,950 --> 00:10:22,890
an alien take a hundred people from all

285
00:10:26,810 --> 00:10:24,960
corners of the earth and and then you're

286
00:10:28,340 --> 00:10:26,820
done so maybe there's a hundred alien

287
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:28,350
abductions but then why would you keep

288
00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:30,240
abducting people over and over and over

289
00:10:35,180 --> 00:10:33,570
again right yeah well well until they

290
00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:35,190
get it right then how the heck did they

291
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:36,960
get here in the first place apparently

292
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:38,250
they can build very good spaceships that

293
00:10:42,050 --> 00:10:40,320
can fly between planets except they

294
00:10:44,210 --> 00:10:42,060
crash it Roswell and they crash with a

295
00:10:46,130 --> 00:10:44,220
stick and Kecksburg and everywhere else

296
00:10:48,290 --> 00:10:46,140
and then when they get here there's such

297
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:48,300
lousy scientists that they're it's their

298
00:10:51,740 --> 00:10:49,770
experiments have to go on for 60 years

299
00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:51,750
and they have to keep repeatedly

300
00:10:56,330 --> 00:10:53,820
abducting people and thousands upon

301
00:10:58,880 --> 00:10:56,340
thousands of people to wait aid freeze

302
00:11:00,890 --> 00:10:58,890
abduction I got the answer reduction

303
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:00,900
they get paid in credits or whatever

304
00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:03,450
there's a there Reticuli monetary system

305
00:11:08,390 --> 00:11:05,640
is they get paid for it so if they come

306
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:08,400
back and say hey we hijacked we abducted

307
00:11:12,770 --> 00:11:10,770
a hundred thousand earth people they get

308
00:11:14,990 --> 00:11:12,780
paid for that but if they only

309
00:11:17,180 --> 00:11:15,000
you know a thousand they only abduct a

310
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:17,190
thousand people well that's not good

311
00:11:20,330 --> 00:11:18,810
enough they'll be replaced next time

312
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:20,340
then they're just like police officers

313
00:11:25,370 --> 00:11:22,290
during what we used to call ticket month

314
00:11:27,170 --> 00:11:25,380
when I work with the RCMP one summer you

315
00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:27,180
would have one month where you that's

316
00:11:29,810 --> 00:11:28,140
the month you have to write all your

317
00:11:32,540 --> 00:11:29,820
tickets because your entire yearly

318
00:11:34,580 --> 00:11:32,550
budget for traffic patrol is they saw

319
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:34,590
that one month they prorated so maybe

320
00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:36,000
the aliens show up that would explain

321
00:11:40,910 --> 00:11:38,430
UFO waves you know every seven or eight

322
00:11:42,590 --> 00:11:40,920
years it's it's human month for the

323
00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:42,600
aliens so they have to show up and

324
00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:44,430
abduct so many humans or else the budget

325
00:11:49,010 --> 00:11:46,980
gets cut I've I have no idea alien logic

326
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:49,020
oh well speaking of any logic you

327
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:50,850
assembled a couple of really fascinating

328
00:11:55,220 --> 00:11:53,370
guests for us today would you tell our

329
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:55,230
listeners who they are and what they're

330
00:11:57,410 --> 00:11:55,770
about

331
00:11:58,880 --> 00:11:57,420
they're from the other side of the pond

332
00:12:01,550 --> 00:11:58,890
they're from what's left of the Empire

333
00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:01,560
Dave Sadler and Steve Mehra from the

334
00:12:06,170 --> 00:12:03,960
United Kingdom a lovely town called

335
00:12:09,410 --> 00:12:06,180
Congleton just south of Manchester in

336
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:09,420
the sort of central England area there

337
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:11,610
are researchers with a an organization

338
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:13,610
called the unknown phenomena

339
00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:16,320
investigation Association or the UPI a

340
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:19,560
and they between them I think they have

341
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:21,210
and we can ask them but I think they

342
00:12:25,460 --> 00:12:23,130
have about 30 or 40 years between them

343
00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:25,470
of investigating all sorts of paranormal

344
00:12:31,130 --> 00:12:27,990
phenomena from ghosts to poltergeists to

345
00:12:33,050 --> 00:12:31,140
to crypto creatures to UFOs you know

346
00:12:35,330 --> 00:12:33,060
pretty much if it's a paranormal subject

347
00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:35,340
they've looked into it I admit Dave a

348
00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:37,080
couple years ago when I was speaking at

349
00:12:42,380 --> 00:12:39,300
a conference in Manchester put on by

350
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,390
Stuart Miller who ran UFO review and

351
00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:44,160
then the alien worlds magazine good guy

352
00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:47,100
and Dave and I just hit it off because

353
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:49,320
he's he strikes me a lot like me he

354
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:51,090
doesn't take himself seriously but he

355
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:52,770
takes the subject seriously he's

356
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:55,890
skeptical but he's open-minded so I kind

357
00:13:00,260 --> 00:12:58,800
of found a kindred spirit in him and you

358
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:00,270
know they take their investigations

359
00:13:05,180 --> 00:13:02,880
seriously they work hard at it and they

360
00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:05,190
don't jump to conclusions and so when we

361
00:13:08,990 --> 00:13:07,230
needed local people in the United

362
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:09,000
Kingdom to partner with Holly Stevenson

363
00:13:13,580 --> 00:13:10,560
I wouldn't we were doing a few episodes

364
00:13:15,260 --> 00:13:13,590
of ghost cases over there last year dave

365
00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:15,270
was the guy I called and we partnered up

366
00:13:18,650 --> 00:13:16,860
with the UPI a so there they were in

367
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:18,660
four episodes of our television series

368
00:13:23,540 --> 00:13:21,360
and they they were fantastic to work

369
00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:23,550
with so I thought well let's introduce

370
00:13:27,310 --> 00:13:25,220
them to folks then

371
00:13:28,630 --> 00:13:27,320
radio in the United Kingdom but they I

372
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,640
don't think they've ever been in North

373
00:13:32,140 --> 00:13:30,560
America or anywhere else you know beyond

374
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:32,150
that so let's introduce them to folks in

375
00:13:35,170 --> 00:13:33,290
the rest of the world because I think

376
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:35,180
they're the best paranormal researchers

377
00:13:39,550 --> 00:13:37,970
that I've run across in the UK and I say

378
00:13:42,010 --> 00:13:39,560
that with no sleight to Nick Pope or

379
00:13:43,870 --> 00:13:42,020
Nick Redfern or Dave Clark who or all

380
00:13:45,550 --> 00:13:43,880
friends line I think Dave said lured

381
00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:45,560
Steve Mayer and their people at the UPI

382
00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:48,710
air just top-notch so so that's why I

383
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,870
suggested them to you Dave Sandler Steve

384
00:13:55,650 --> 00:13:53,120
Merrick coming up next on the power cast

385
00:13:58,630 --> 00:13:55,660
[Music]

386
00:14:00,460 --> 00:13:58,640
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00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:34,100
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403
00:14:41,260 --> 00:14:36,320
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404
00:14:43,060 --> 00:14:41,270
chief see you online we want to hear

405
00:14:45,310 --> 00:14:43,070
from you if you have a comment a

406
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:45,320
question about the pair cast send it to

407
00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:47,810
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408
00:14:52,990 --> 00:14:51,020
that's news at the pear cast calm and

409
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:53,000
don't forget to visit our forums where

410
00:14:57,250 --> 00:14:54,560
you can talk to fellow listeners and

411
00:15:00,100 --> 00:14:57,260
Jean and David just go to the pear cast

412
00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:00,110
comm and click on the forum links that's

413
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:15,000
I just spun options and you're listening

414
00:15:21,690 --> 00:15:17,770
to the podcast with Jean Steinberg they

415
00:15:23,550 --> 00:15:21,700
gave me and I completely unfocused eclis

416
00:15:25,710 --> 00:15:23,560
endorses program it's an absolutely

417
00:15:28,830 --> 00:15:25,720
great program with opportunities to

418
00:15:31,170 --> 00:15:28,840
stretch out and talk and here we are

419
00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:31,180
with Paul Kimball Jean Steinberg and

420
00:15:36,990 --> 00:15:33,880
tonight Dave Sadler and Steve Mehra

421
00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:37,000
calling us from Congleton in the United

422
00:15:43,980 --> 00:15:41,470
Kingdom hi guys how are you good good

423
00:15:46,770 --> 00:15:43,990
I think what I was thinking we do would

424
00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:46,780
be introduce you to the good people of

425
00:15:52,350 --> 00:15:48,580
the Peres casts who listen to the show

426
00:15:53,460 --> 00:15:52,360
and ask each of you in turn I I mean I

427
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:53,470
know your background

428
00:16:00,960 --> 00:15:58,800
I know Dave's background very well but

429
00:16:02,730 --> 00:16:00,970
obviously there are things here that are

430
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:02,740
not stated that we'd like to learn but

431
00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:05,440
that can't be done on me in the province

432
00:16:14,430 --> 00:16:09,910
of this radio show yeah it's an entirely

433
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,440
different show r-rated but yeah I was

434
00:16:18,570 --> 00:16:16,480
thinking each of you maybe we can start

435
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:18,580
with Dave's and then Steve you can

436
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:21,370
follow up what just describe a bit about

437
00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:24,160
the UPI a and map it and who are you

438
00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:26,230
guys how you get into paranormal

439
00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:28,150
research what's your background you know

440
00:16:33,810 --> 00:16:30,550
give us the the bio of Dave Sadler and

441
00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:33,820
Steve Mehra and your organization family

442
00:16:38,070 --> 00:16:35,860
well there you go on my name's Dave

443
00:16:40,140 --> 00:16:38,080
Sadler I've been involved in the

444
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:40,150
paranormal investigation ufology and

445
00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:42,160
cryptozoology and suchlike now for

446
00:16:48,270 --> 00:16:45,430
approximately kawin close to 14 years I

447
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:48,280
originally started from a basic interest

448
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:50,970
boredom and shoes from the job I was

449
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:53,590
taking at the time and a lot of spare

450
00:16:58,950 --> 00:16:56,410
time so I decided to sell it and I found

451
00:17:01,970 --> 00:16:58,960
that I was my interested interest at the

452
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:01,980
time was big into the paranormal so I

453
00:17:07,770 --> 00:17:04,240
delved into it a little bit luckily

454
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:07,780
found a VIP seekers which run by mr.

455
00:17:12,750 --> 00:17:09,310
mirror how we met

456
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:12,760
from there I continued my learning of

457
00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:15,010
the subject and the basics of the

458
00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:19,030
subject formed the UPI a 1998 and from

459
00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:21,910
there we took part in

460
00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:23,470
a lot of active investigations

461
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:26,110
throughout the country in fact we took

462
00:17:30,570 --> 00:17:28,690
going in some UFO cases throughout the

463
00:17:32,850 --> 00:17:30,580
world which would be able to air to

464
00:17:34,770 --> 00:17:32,860
solve especially regarding the footage

465
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:34,780
that's been sent over and images and

466
00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:37,690
such like nowadays the team is are more

467
00:17:42,540 --> 00:17:39,550
compact team there's ten active members

468
00:17:45,090 --> 00:17:42,550
Steve included and some of the work that

469
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:45,100
we're doing I think for eclipses most of

470
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:47,530
the organization similar to the UPI and

471
00:17:53,790 --> 00:17:51,490
the UK we've we've taken steps forward

472
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:53,800
greatly in many different areas and

473
00:17:58,290 --> 00:17:55,570
that's not down to myself a thousand

474
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,300
people within the UPI a so yeah we look

475
00:18:03,390 --> 00:18:00,880
at haunting activity ghosts apparitions

476
00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:03,400
that's always your honor we look at UFOs

477
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:05,950
we look at big cats and there's lots of

478
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:07,690
little different areas that we look at

479
00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:10,810
as well a lot of things that come in we

480
00:18:15,540 --> 00:18:12,700
have to obviously lock out within the

481
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:15,550
the whole paranormal world so we're back

482
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:21,070
to me and not the EPIA first era well I

483
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:23,470
pretty much started there very young and

484
00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:26,080
you can say my father was a UFO

485
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:27,940
investigator he also had a large

486
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:30,400
interest in the almost objects of the

487
00:18:36,810 --> 00:18:33,910
paranormal and I had a huge Wardrobe

488
00:18:38,430 --> 00:18:36,820
full of books and I think from run about

489
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:38,440
eight and nine years old I used to pull

490
00:18:41,940 --> 00:18:39,760
the odd book out and have a look through

491
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:41,950
there was a loose track reports or the

492
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:44,650
of those days really the erich von

493
00:18:50,190 --> 00:18:47,110
daniken of box type things there were

494
00:18:51,810 --> 00:18:50,200
choice of the gods and bats tigers UFO

495
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:51,820
balls and things like that I've pretty

496
00:18:57,030 --> 00:18:54,400
much got interested in the subjects of

497
00:18:59,400 --> 00:18:57,040
UFOs we dad had a telescope and would

498
00:19:01,140 --> 00:18:59,410
often take me out on the bed in the

499
00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:01,150
middle of the night unfortunately to

500
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:02,950
look at the Stars and their planets and

501
00:19:07,650 --> 00:19:05,440
how many times we find ourselves up on

502
00:19:09,870 --> 00:19:07,660
the walls on the night looking up a

503
00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:09,880
clear night sky so it was kind of in the

504
00:19:14,190 --> 00:19:11,470
blood from the very early age

505
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:14,200
and when I left school I still had the

506
00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:16,930
interests a multitude to find out if

507
00:19:21,210 --> 00:19:18,700
there was a little bit more through what

508
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:21,220
I've made in books but I was caught up

509
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:23,640
in the guards a lot of training and

510
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:26,290
electrical engineering and and then I

511
00:19:31,779 --> 00:19:28,210
was hired out as a contract worker for

512
00:19:33,899 --> 00:19:31,789
NATO for a short length of time

513
00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:33,909
but through the process of those years I

514
00:19:39,899 --> 00:19:37,190
was reading and finding out on as much

515
00:19:42,909 --> 00:19:39,909
as I possibly could on the subject and

516
00:19:45,159 --> 00:19:42,919
around about 20 years ago I mean I've

517
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,169
been in the subject now and for about 25

518
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:48,080
years but about 20 years ago I opened up

519
00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:49,850
my first organization which was a

520
00:19:56,109 --> 00:19:54,200
Chechen UFO group and then I became an

521
00:19:58,450 --> 00:19:56,119
investigator would be fallen a British

522
00:20:00,639 --> 00:19:58,460
UFO research Association who became a

523
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:00,649
regional investigative coordinator with

524
00:20:05,169 --> 00:20:02,799
them and helped you to their course

525
00:20:07,299 --> 00:20:05,179
prepared of talent became involved in

526
00:20:10,450 --> 00:20:07,309
numerous organizations through the UK

527
00:20:13,779 --> 00:20:10,460
and around by the 1980s or laughter

528
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:13,789
1980s a lot of people were becoming

529
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:15,710
interested in the paranormal they've

530
00:20:19,690 --> 00:20:17,450
been a number of television programs on

531
00:20:22,060 --> 00:20:19,700
the TV such as the x-files and people

532
00:20:24,219 --> 00:20:22,070
more interesting in paranormal side of

533
00:20:27,519 --> 00:20:24,229
things as well as UFOs so a lot of

534
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:27,529
organizations like my own and started

535
00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:29,090
thinking about investigating paranormal

536
00:20:34,869 --> 00:20:31,700
as well so we ended up investigating

537
00:20:37,330 --> 00:20:34,879
both UFO and paranormal phenomena and I

538
00:20:40,210 --> 00:20:37,340
took over an organization which was run

539
00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:40,220
by David Rees it had been formed in 1974

540
00:20:45,609 --> 00:20:43,190
called map it and been running that

541
00:20:48,339 --> 00:20:45,619
today basically investigating and

542
00:20:51,549 --> 00:20:48,349
researching the paranormal all aspects

543
00:20:54,669 --> 00:20:51,559
the UFOs supernatural or pretty

544
00:20:56,649 --> 00:20:54,679
neurological we also run the British

545
00:20:58,389 --> 00:20:56,659
investigators training course which is a

546
00:21:00,159 --> 00:20:58,399
course which was row by myself and

547
00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:00,169
Universal academics from around the

548
00:21:04,719 --> 00:21:02,809
world and I think today it's probably

549
00:21:07,239 --> 00:21:04,729
the most recognized cost in the country

550
00:21:09,099 --> 00:21:07,249
for people who wish to learn a little

551
00:21:11,259 --> 00:21:09,109
bit more about how to investigate and

552
00:21:14,139 --> 00:21:11,269
research the phenomena from an

553
00:21:15,639 --> 00:21:14,149
investigative point subside or even if

554
00:21:17,789 --> 00:21:15,649
you have their own organization and

555
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:17,799
wants to put their own details together

556
00:21:23,229 --> 00:21:21,049
and do their own form of investigations

557
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:23,239
and since then basically we have been

558
00:21:29,669 --> 00:21:26,330
involved in the media aspect of it all

559
00:21:32,919 --> 00:21:29,679
as well so we're about 25 years in total

560
00:21:36,219 --> 00:21:32,929
domestic we'll get into a lot of those

561
00:21:38,649 --> 00:21:36,229
cases from ghosts UFOs poltergeists as

562
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:38,659
the show goes on but I just wanted you

563
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:41,690
to clarify like Steve you have a correct

564
00:21:47,739 --> 00:21:42,559
me if I'm wrong you have a

565
00:21:49,330 --> 00:21:47,749
master's degree in science don't you and

566
00:21:51,340 --> 00:21:49,340
one of your other guys Paul Reeves who

567
00:21:55,779 --> 00:21:51,350
worked with us he has a science degree

568
00:21:57,909 --> 00:21:55,789
as well chemistry I think these are a

569
00:22:00,970 --> 00:21:57,919
lot manager for a well-known British

570
00:22:03,070 --> 00:22:00,980
pharmaceutical company so you guys and

571
00:22:04,539 --> 00:22:03,080
this sort of would lead me into the next

572
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,549
thing that I wanted to talk about just

573
00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:06,799
as some preliminary stuff before we

574
00:22:10,869 --> 00:22:08,990
start talking about the cases and and

575
00:22:12,279 --> 00:22:10,879
the things that you've encountered okay

576
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:12,289
and one of the things that impressed me

577
00:22:16,869 --> 00:22:14,570
a great deal when I went over as I was

578
00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:16,879
saying to Jean before we called you guys

579
00:22:22,210 --> 00:22:20,360
up is the sort of skeptical scientific

580
00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:22,220
but open-minded approach you guys take

581
00:22:26,409 --> 00:22:25,190
to investigations and the fact that that

582
00:22:28,419 --> 00:22:26,419
at least some of your members have a

583
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:28,429
scientific background talking to Paul

584
00:22:32,649 --> 00:22:30,529
and Steve when that you can see that

585
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:32,659
come into the investigations so perhaps

586
00:22:38,529 --> 00:22:34,850
you guys could describe a bit about your

587
00:22:41,470 --> 00:22:38,539
research methodology if I call you from

588
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:41,480
shock lack for instance and say you know

589
00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:43,610
L oh I think my house is haunted

590
00:22:47,289 --> 00:22:45,590
where are you taken from there like how

591
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:47,299
do you that's my work that's the worst

592
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,129
British accent you'll ever hear let me

593
00:22:54,129 --> 00:22:51,679
interrupt your folks I can do something

594
00:22:56,169 --> 00:22:54,139
it's even worse I'm not going to really

595
00:22:58,720 --> 00:22:56,179
inflict that upon any of our listeners I

596
00:23:01,090 --> 00:22:58,730
know because we believe that they have

597
00:23:02,649 --> 00:23:01,100
put their faith in this program and we

598
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:02,659
don't want to encounter anything like

599
00:23:11,379 --> 00:23:05,570
that crikey that's no wait that's

600
00:23:13,269 --> 00:23:11,389
Australia well without my lousy British

601
00:23:15,489 --> 00:23:13,279
accent Pratt did talk a bit about your

602
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:15,499
research methodology how you go from a

603
00:23:19,629 --> 00:23:17,450
somebody calling you up or contacting

604
00:23:22,090 --> 00:23:19,639
you to you know through the

605
00:23:24,399 --> 00:23:22,100
investigation process kinds of equipment

606
00:23:27,580 --> 00:23:24,409
you use I know Dave when we were there

607
00:23:29,259 --> 00:23:27,590
filming ghost cases EMF meter's which a

608
00:23:31,330 --> 00:23:29,269
lot of people think our ghost detectors

609
00:23:33,549 --> 00:23:31,340
courtesy of certain television shows

610
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:33,559
perhaps we can get into a whole bunch of

611
00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:35,570
that of just the equipment the way that

612
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:37,460
investigations are run the methodology

613
00:23:41,139 --> 00:23:38,960
you know how did how should it be done

614
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:41,149
properly because you guys I think

615
00:23:45,549 --> 00:23:43,129
knowing properly so so let us know how

616
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:45,559
you do it well to be on it first and

617
00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:47,330
foremost I wouldn't cross myself

618
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:49,279
personally all the API is skeptics

619
00:23:54,510 --> 00:23:52,240
outclasses realists we've

620
00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:54,520
let's see let's face as you said about

621
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:55,750
EMF meters

622
00:23:58,860 --> 00:23:57,490
you go around waving only MF meter

623
00:24:00,780 --> 00:23:58,870
nobody not to be knows what they're

624
00:24:02,250 --> 00:24:00,790
using it for they're not going into the

625
00:24:03,930 --> 00:24:02,260
study of this yet they're not going to

626
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:03,940
disability of EMF meter in the first

627
00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:07,330
place to find out actually what EMS if

628
00:24:11,610 --> 00:24:09,340
you audit a PMF what it's causing an

629
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:11,620
obviously guy is causing a physiological

630
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:13,510
effect it's causing effects on the brain

631
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,730
for instance so we're going to go into

632
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:17,200
it we've got to find out more or less

633
00:24:22,590 --> 00:24:20,410
everything to do with EMF what its

634
00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:22,600
effects on the human body is because

635
00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:24,790
ghosts don't anyti enough that's just

636
00:24:28,530 --> 00:24:26,860
one come so anyway and there's another

637
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:28,540
word for it by the way but we can't do

638
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:34,450
that on family radio alder - a good

639
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:36,850
phrase for that old about yes we'll use

640
00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:40,570
Boulder - for a case if the case came in

641
00:24:44,940 --> 00:24:42,160
the first thing that I personally would

642
00:24:47,910 --> 00:24:44,950
do I would Sunday a research request out

643
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:47,920
to the team we've got several people in

644
00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:50,590
the team who who have you away with the

645
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:52,390
amount of information they're able to

646
00:24:57,450 --> 00:24:54,880
find in an incidence overnight one

647
00:24:59,460 --> 00:24:57,460
person while both people mainly so in

648
00:25:02,370 --> 00:24:59,470
case they just don't go to bed and sit

649
00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:02,380
there and research so where the research

650
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:04,390
request to be put out we'd go on to

651
00:25:09,810 --> 00:25:07,330
interview they the clients the witnesses

652
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:09,820
we'd find out as much information we

653
00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:12,370
possibly could from them going into

654
00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:14,830
things as deep as what drugs they're

655
00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:17,980
using prescribed drugs or in some cases

656
00:25:23,820 --> 00:25:21,520
on prescribed drugs and we will see what

657
00:25:27,299 --> 00:25:23,830
side effects that has again on the human

658
00:25:28,919 --> 00:25:27,309
physiology we will just absolutely ask

659
00:25:30,930 --> 00:25:28,929
them as many questions we'll get to know

660
00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:30,940
the people as best we possibly can to

661
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:33,160
find out as much information as we can

662
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:34,510
Steve do you want to take you from there

663
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:36,610
yeah yeah I mean obviously we the

664
00:25:40,260 --> 00:25:38,110
investigation is coming in I mean

665
00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:40,270
sometimes we do have space for

666
00:25:44,610 --> 00:25:42,820
investigations when we come in regular

667
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:44,620
life and I think there's a process that

668
00:25:48,419 --> 00:25:46,330
we have to take on board such as

669
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:48,429
volunteering the investigation I mean

670
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:50,080
sometimes a lot of the things that we do

671
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:52,210
get reported it'll usually a lot of just

672
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:54,640
information such as some person saw

673
00:25:59,010 --> 00:25:57,370
something a number of months ago the

674
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,020
unfortunate thing is we're investigating

675
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:01,360
UFOs he usually investigation something

676
00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:03,250
has already happened and the chance of

677
00:26:06,129 --> 00:26:03,950
you actually

678
00:26:08,620 --> 00:26:06,139
again in the vicinity is usually very

679
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:08,630
low investigating the paranormal is a

680
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:09,710
little bit different because you do

681
00:26:13,539 --> 00:26:11,840
actually have the probability of being

682
00:26:17,019 --> 00:26:13,549
able to see something we experience

683
00:26:18,730 --> 00:26:17,029
something a second time around so

684
00:26:21,129 --> 00:26:18,740
warranting investigations is quite

685
00:26:22,509 --> 00:26:21,139
important issue for us because there we

686
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:22,519
have to look at them and say which ones

687
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:24,320
have the priority and which ones don't

688
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:26,450
of course those which involve children

689
00:26:32,049 --> 00:26:30,110
and traumatic or severe frequency

690
00:26:34,060 --> 00:26:32,059
incidents obviously goes straight to the

691
00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:34,070
top of the top of the list because there

692
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:36,110
is a necessity to investigate those

693
00:26:40,330 --> 00:26:37,940
first and we're going through life

694
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:40,340
gathers motion the process of researcher

695
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:42,769
process of if there are psychological

696
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:44,570
conditions which could have to be

697
00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:47,120
attributed through the experience is

698
00:26:51,970 --> 00:26:49,820
there physical things as people reported

699
00:26:54,190 --> 00:26:51,980
and physical interaction or some call of

700
00:26:56,019 --> 00:26:54,200
some source we have to want on the

701
00:26:57,549 --> 00:26:56,029
investigation we also have to work out

702
00:26:59,889 --> 00:26:57,559
what equipment is going to be required

703
00:27:02,139 --> 00:26:59,899
for that location if it's indoors if

704
00:27:03,930 --> 00:27:02,149
it's outdoors do we have power sometimes

705
00:27:06,190 --> 00:27:03,940
we don't have power lateral and on-site

706
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:06,200
investigation through gel on generators

707
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:09,230
and light falls and basically making

708
00:27:14,769 --> 00:27:11,210
sure that the whole thing comes together

709
00:27:16,930 --> 00:27:14,779
in a proper manner that we don't waste

710
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:16,940
our resources because a lot of people

711
00:27:20,409 --> 00:27:18,049
tend to go out there and investigate

712
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:20,419
this and then ask questions afterwards I

713
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:22,130
think we kind of do things the opposite

714
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:23,690
way around and the reason for doing that

715
00:27:28,419 --> 00:27:26,330
is is so would that be we sometimes find

716
00:27:30,580 --> 00:27:28,429
a rational explanation without having to

717
00:27:33,250 --> 00:27:30,590
spend so much time on particular

718
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:33,260
investigation so we have us the closest

719
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:34,850
of allies investigation short they would

720
00:27:42,979 --> 00:27:40,659
[Music]

721
00:27:45,259 --> 00:27:42,989
picture this you're on the phone with a

722
00:27:48,249 --> 00:27:45,269
client or colleague trying to explain

723
00:27:50,659 --> 00:27:48,259
something visual a PowerPoint keynote

724
00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:50,669
presentation a website but it's

725
00:27:55,340 --> 00:27:53,340
frustrating because they can't see what

726
00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:55,350
you're talking about the solution good

727
00:28:01,639 --> 00:27:58,049
news they can if you invite them to an

728
00:28:04,009 --> 00:28:01,649
online meeting using GoToMeeting then

729
00:28:06,499 --> 00:28:04,019
they can see your computer desktop on

730
00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:06,509
their computer screen so you can show

731
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,580
them what you're talking about I use

732
00:28:12,619 --> 00:28:10,080
goto meeting all the time to collaborate

733
00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:12,629
with colleagues and with clients you can

734
00:28:19,820 --> 00:28:15,929
try goto meeting free for 30 days but

735
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:19,830
you must visit goto meeting / podcasts

736
00:28:39,979 --> 00:28:23,609
let's go to meeting.com slash podcasts

737
00:28:43,249 --> 00:28:39,989
for free 30-day trial next we have Dave

738
00:28:45,529 --> 00:28:43,259
Sadler Steve Mara and we're joined by

739
00:28:47,570 --> 00:28:45,539
our special guest co-host Paul Kimble

740
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:47,580
Steve has a book out called strange

741
00:28:52,460 --> 00:28:49,609
happenings memoirs of a paranormal

742
00:28:55,460 --> 00:28:52,470
investigator I guess that's where you

743
00:28:58,669 --> 00:28:55,470
tell all about your secret life whatever

744
00:29:01,609 --> 00:28:58,679
it is yeah I think there's a number of

745
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,619
investigations from my first one of 10

746
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:04,320
years in that in the book which covers

747
00:29:07,999 --> 00:29:06,450
everything from UFOs to paranormal to

748
00:29:09,710 --> 00:29:08,009
strange and profound things so it's

749
00:29:11,389 --> 00:29:09,720
quite an interesting read and Dave you

750
00:29:15,229 --> 00:29:11,399
got book alcohol paranormal reality

751
00:29:18,529 --> 00:29:15,239
ghosts UFOs and Pussycats that's correct

752
00:29:22,129 --> 00:29:18,539
yeah when are they are they going to

753
00:29:23,779 --> 00:29:22,139
meow at us now or what hopefully so it's

754
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,789
not been on known for certain Oh kitty

755
00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:25,200
cats out with those on an investigation

756
00:29:32,690 --> 00:29:29,580
for a big cat yeah basically the big cat

757
00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:32,700
thing in the UK where in the US and I

758
00:29:36,229 --> 00:29:34,529
don't know about Canada you you've got

759
00:29:38,779 --> 00:29:36,239
obviously a lot of wildlife a lot of

760
00:29:41,389 --> 00:29:38,789
pubes not in the wild in the UK that's

761
00:29:43,549 --> 00:29:41,399
that's basically unknown so we've got a

762
00:29:45,619 --> 00:29:43,559
classification of an ABC an alien big

763
00:29:47,899 --> 00:29:45,629
cat alien being and obviously aliens of

764
00:29:50,210 --> 00:29:47,909
the terrain and from the amount of

765
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:50,220
reports that we we gauge yeah we're

766
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:51,520
lucky to

767
00:29:54,450 --> 00:29:53,170
we can the team unfortunately I wasn't

768
00:29:56,460 --> 00:29:54,460
available to go out with team around

769
00:29:59,220 --> 00:29:56,470
about in the UM corn in Cheshire look in

770
00:30:00,810 --> 00:29:59,230
our case of a big car so yeah they looks

771
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:00,820
at big car to looks at the paranormal

772
00:30:03,810 --> 00:30:02,350
that looks at us those and looks at crop

773
00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:03,820
circles one of the cases that means

774
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:06,100
they've done a good ten years ago now

775
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,370
evolved in a crop circle in North Wales

776
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:10,720
again not dissimilar to Steve's it's

777
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:14,290
it's more Case Files as a few I think

778
00:30:20,130 --> 00:30:15,520
mine's a bit more lighthearted than

779
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:20,140
speeds as you can tell by the cover it

780
00:30:24,450 --> 00:30:22,480
has a good feedback up to now yeah all

781
00:30:26,010 --> 00:30:24,460
right I understand about the Pussycats

782
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:26,020
though I'm still not getting this to

783
00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:30,730
clear why in the UK we call Pussycats up

784
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:33,550
in the little chubby house cap so it's

785
00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:35,710
just a play on words for the little de

786
00:30:40,740 --> 00:30:38,380
lightheartedness of it yeah here in the

787
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:40,750
UK we have a number of reported

788
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:42,370
incidents where people claim to have

789
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:46,090
seen large exotic fat cats such as Pumas

790
00:30:51,090 --> 00:30:49,090
Panthers so on and so forth which is

791
00:30:53,010 --> 00:30:51,100
usually you could expect to be a rarity

792
00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:53,020
in the UK because the obviously did not

793
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:54,580
send they're not normally found in this

794
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:56,410
country however there is a lot of

795
00:31:00,570 --> 00:30:57,850
speculation out some of these has been

796
00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:00,580
released and walking around about 1976

797
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:03,100
during the animal the exotic animals

798
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:05,170
register and that came into force and

799
00:31:09,420 --> 00:31:07,330
maybe that's some of them have been got

800
00:31:12,390 --> 00:31:09,430
out of zoos or been pets and been let

801
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:12,400
loose and occasionally the end up with a

802
00:31:16,890 --> 00:31:14,710
newspaper article so somebody has seen

803
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:16,900
something quite like a puma or Panther

804
00:31:20,370 --> 00:31:18,250
so we tend to go out and investigate

805
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:20,380
those things just for the clips allude

806
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:23,230
cryptozoological side so that we we end

807
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:25,690
up with a database of information which

808
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,010
would provide some numerous other

809
00:31:31,230 --> 00:31:29,440
organizations around the country in hope

810
00:31:34,140 --> 00:31:31,240
of protecting these cats was the first

811
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:34,150
thing and secondly to stock hysteria as

812
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,770
well because most of the time people do

813
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:37,600
get fearful in these animals and when

814
00:31:42,060 --> 00:31:39,760
when if that's I think the cats are

815
00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:42,070
probably more afraid of humans to tell

816
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:43,900
you the truth now are we saying then

817
00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:45,610
that these cats are not really

818
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:47,590
paranormal but just something that's

819
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:49,810
natural to our planet but maybe we don't

820
00:31:55,470 --> 00:31:52,930
know enough about them it's a rarity in

821
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:55,480
the UK in the u.s. obviously you have

822
00:32:00,450 --> 00:31:57,760
Cougars in the back garden a lot in the

823
00:32:02,580 --> 00:32:00,460
UK we only have them in zoos they're not

824
00:32:03,869 --> 00:32:02,590
the natural climate the terrain in the

825
00:32:07,109 --> 00:32:03,879
UK is it's an

826
00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:07,119
arrey we've not seen things like that

827
00:32:12,449 --> 00:32:10,089
since medieval times so nowadays when a

828
00:32:13,919 --> 00:32:12,459
big cat is reported it is a rarity it's

829
00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:13,929
something of consequence which we follow

830
00:32:18,029 --> 00:32:15,849
up on that as I said earlier it's one of

831
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:18,039
them areas we clustered the UK as a

832
00:32:22,889 --> 00:32:20,769
critter illogical in nature and it's an

833
00:32:24,299 --> 00:32:22,899
area that obviously from the UPI a

834
00:32:26,339 --> 00:32:24,309
unknown phenomena investigation

835
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:26,349
Association we take seriously and we'll

836
00:32:31,769 --> 00:32:28,809
look at them cases and to be honest it's

837
00:32:34,469 --> 00:32:31,779
a relief and it's it's nice to get out

838
00:32:36,239 --> 00:32:34,479
into the wild trying to track these of

839
00:32:38,339 --> 00:32:36,249
these animals as the team did at the

840
00:32:40,589 --> 00:32:38,349
weekend it's a relief from the norm the

841
00:32:42,269 --> 00:32:40,599
youth illogical or they the paranormal

842
00:32:44,009 --> 00:32:42,279
so what you're saying then Dave and

843
00:32:45,449 --> 00:32:44,019
Steve is there isn't because a

844
00:32:47,879 --> 00:32:45,459
paranormal aspect because there are

845
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:47,889
people who would assert that there is a

846
00:32:53,009 --> 00:32:51,039
paranormal element to the big cat

847
00:32:55,499 --> 00:32:53,019
phenomenon and I don't mean just

848
00:32:57,899 --> 00:32:55,509
cryptozoological but I mean everything

849
00:33:00,180 --> 00:32:57,909
from alien big cats as you sort of

850
00:33:02,909 --> 00:33:00,190
mentioned Dave but tying in and not just

851
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:02,919
cats but the devil dog phenomena which

852
00:33:07,769 --> 00:33:04,569
my friend Nick Redfern is written about

853
00:33:09,659 --> 00:33:07,779
the legends of the the hounds of hell in

854
00:33:11,999 --> 00:33:09,669
the United Kingdom so what you're saying

855
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:12,009
is you think that the the big cats is

856
00:33:15,719 --> 00:33:13,569
something that can certainly be

857
00:33:19,529 --> 00:33:15,729
explained without resort to paranormal

858
00:33:23,449 --> 00:33:19,539
phenomena absolutely other Steve said

859
00:33:27,659 --> 00:33:23,459
before in 1976 in the UK the government

860
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:27,669
performed a a new law the exotic animals

861
00:33:31,199 --> 00:33:29,529
register were basically people in them

862
00:33:32,969 --> 00:33:31,209
sighs when you see films like Austin

863
00:33:35,369 --> 00:33:32,979
Powers in the swinging sixties you get

864
00:33:37,349 --> 00:33:35,379
people walking around with the big tiger

865
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:37,359
on the lead that was outlawed people

866
00:33:40,819 --> 00:33:39,129
were not how to do that they had some of

867
00:33:43,379 --> 00:33:40,829
them caged we had to have certain things

868
00:33:45,449 --> 00:33:43,389
around them they were able to keep these

869
00:33:47,549 --> 00:33:45,459
animals and a lot of people didn't want

870
00:33:48,989 --> 00:33:47,559
to go through the processes abided by

871
00:33:51,089 --> 00:33:48,999
these laws and the least amongst the

872
00:33:53,459 --> 00:33:51,099
wild the best-known case in the UK is

873
00:33:55,529 --> 00:33:53,469
the the beast of Exmoor and it's quite

874
00:33:58,079 --> 00:33:55,539
well known worldwide for instance that's

875
00:33:59,609 --> 00:33:58,089
that's probably the main one we recently

876
00:34:00,930 --> 00:33:59,619
are there quite a major one the Beast of

877
00:34:03,539 --> 00:34:00,940
books you know which ended up being a

878
00:34:05,069 --> 00:34:03,549
hoax nowadays we believe these animals

879
00:34:07,959 --> 00:34:05,079
are capable of living in the wild it's

880
00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:07,969
obviously that when people do see them

881
00:34:12,549 --> 00:34:10,190
in the UK they're quite shocked by that

882
00:34:15,279 --> 00:34:12,559
and they feel they need to report that

883
00:34:17,259 --> 00:34:15,289
to somebody because hey they don't know

884
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:17,269
these pictures are dangerous or not so

885
00:34:20,859 --> 00:34:19,129
again as we've said we're trying to

886
00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:20,869
protect the welfare of the animals as

887
00:34:24,940 --> 00:34:23,089
well as documenting a database of

888
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:24,950
sightings throughout the UK and working

889
00:34:28,809 --> 00:34:27,169
with other organisations to see what

890
00:34:30,999 --> 00:34:28,819
sort of population of the animals are in

891
00:34:34,359 --> 00:34:31,009
the UK does this sort of highlight a

892
00:34:36,819 --> 00:34:34,369
broader point which is because Cougars

893
00:34:38,349 --> 00:34:36,829
mouth lines are not indigenous to the

894
00:34:40,839 --> 00:34:38,359
United Kingdom they would seem if you

895
00:34:43,539 --> 00:34:40,849
were in your backyard in Yorkshire and

896
00:34:45,369 --> 00:34:43,549
cougar going by you would be quite

897
00:34:47,169 --> 00:34:45,379
startled I suspect whereas if you were

898
00:34:50,019 --> 00:34:47,179
in New Mexico and in the American

899
00:34:51,490 --> 00:34:50,029
Southwest or in Alberta in Canada it

900
00:34:52,839 --> 00:34:51,500
might not be an everyday occurrence but

901
00:34:53,799 --> 00:34:52,849
you wouldn't be surprised to see when

902
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:53,809
you'd know what they are

903
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:56,210
does that sort of maybe explain why some

904
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,680
people in the United Kingdom at least

905
00:35:01,960 --> 00:34:59,599
would look at those things and maybe

906
00:35:03,460 --> 00:35:01,970
ascribe a paranormal explanation to it

907
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:03,470
because it's something outside their

908
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:06,170
their regular day-to-day routine of what

909
00:35:11,980 --> 00:35:08,210
they might expect to see and does that

910
00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:11,990
speak to a broader point about how maybe

911
00:35:16,359 --> 00:35:14,000
a lot of what we see that we would

912
00:35:17,859 --> 00:35:16,369
describe as paranormal if other people

913
00:35:19,059 --> 00:35:17,869
saw it they wouldn't describe this

914
00:35:20,740 --> 00:35:19,069
paranormal because it's something

915
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:20,750
they're more used to yeah I think

916
00:35:23,950 --> 00:35:22,609
basically what all the same exudes a lot

917
00:35:25,809 --> 00:35:23,960
I think it all kicks off with a

918
00:35:28,180 --> 00:35:25,819
misinterpretation with the media to tell

919
00:35:29,950 --> 00:35:28,190
the truth I mean the term alien big a

920
00:35:31,450 --> 00:35:29,960
lot of people thought this meant that is

921
00:35:34,930 --> 00:35:31,460
for thinking that it was something to do

922
00:35:36,819 --> 00:35:34,940
with as it restores or UFOs in fact it

923
00:35:39,069 --> 00:35:36,829
just mean that he was being it was alien

924
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:39,079
to our country not normally stuff such

925
00:35:42,339 --> 00:35:41,119
animals and of course some other people

926
00:35:43,779 --> 00:35:42,349
picked up on that and thought it was

927
00:35:46,779 --> 00:35:43,789
something really profound

928
00:35:48,460 --> 00:35:46,789
in fact our resources and when we spend

929
00:35:50,799 --> 00:35:48,470
time investigating big cat sightings

930
00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:50,809
it's mostly and to assist other

931
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:53,240
organizations in the finalizing and

932
00:35:57,819 --> 00:35:55,609
statistics of how many cat sightings of

933
00:35:59,559 --> 00:35:57,829
our cross the country when people do see

934
00:36:01,480 --> 00:35:59,569
them it usually makes headlines and it

935
00:36:04,089 --> 00:36:01,490
usually does cause a bit of a stir and

936
00:36:06,339 --> 00:36:04,099
we do get reported incidents every year

937
00:36:08,259 --> 00:36:06,349
come through but when you get a group of

938
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:08,269
people he softly started you know maybe

939
00:36:12,849 --> 00:36:10,910
something like a large cat has been seen

940
00:36:14,859 --> 00:36:12,859
and there is no surprise to probably

941
00:36:16,359 --> 00:36:14,869
find them in the UK because now this

942
00:36:18,009 --> 00:36:16,369
seems to be evidence to support the fact

943
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:18,019
that they are breeding and living quite

944
00:36:22,410 --> 00:36:20,260
comfortably throughout the country and

945
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:22,420
unfortunate thing is that's usually end

946
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:25,090
up getting a lot of silly things put

947
00:36:29,550 --> 00:36:27,690
into the local newspapers and people are

948
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:29,560
misinterpreting what they actually mean

949
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:32,560
by the same alien bit cap it reminds me

950
00:36:37,170 --> 00:36:34,930
of I know Nick Redfern and I went to

951
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:37,180
Puerto Rico a few years ago and research

952
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:38,770
the and he's been there several times

953
00:36:43,140 --> 00:36:41,530
the Chupacabra phenomenon and the

954
00:36:45,810 --> 00:36:43,150
researchers that we talked to in Puerto

955
00:36:47,310 --> 00:36:45,820
Rico said and these were people you know

956
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:47,320
paranormal researchers but they said

957
00:36:52,530 --> 00:36:49,990
look the general prevailing consensus

958
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:52,540
here is that these might be lab animals

959
00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:54,370
that escaped the the American government

960
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:56,380
has a number of secret facilities in

961
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,480
Puerto Rico military and otherwise they

962
00:37:02,010 --> 00:36:59,920
might have escaped or they might have

963
00:37:03,330 --> 00:37:02,020
been animals pets they would have

964
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:03,340
escaped from people or been let loose

965
00:37:07,710 --> 00:37:05,260
and you know they go roaming through the

966
00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:07,720
jungle and they have to survive so but

967
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:10,270
the legend then that mix in in Puerto

968
00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:12,250
Rico that mixed with legends they

969
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:14,500
already head of vampire like creatures

970
00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:16,510
called the MOCA vampire and all of a

971
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:18,520
sudden then the alien thing I don't even

972
00:37:22,530 --> 00:37:20,040
know how that got in there but somehow

973
00:37:23,820 --> 00:37:22,540
ufologist descend or some you fall just

974
00:37:27,060 --> 00:37:23,830
to send and turn them into Zeta

975
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:27,070
reticulan vampires and the next the next

976
00:37:30,030 --> 00:37:28,450
thing you know you have this mean that's

977
00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:30,040
spreading and suddenly you have aliens

978
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:31,630
the chupacabras are these alien

979
00:37:35,070 --> 00:37:33,340
creatures when in fact you know they

980
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:35,080
might just be souped up monkeys that if

981
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:37,930
escaped into the wild importing eco and

982
00:37:41,220 --> 00:37:39,430
so I don't think that's that's something

983
00:37:43,710 --> 00:37:41,230
that just happens in the United Kingdom

984
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:43,720
with big cats although I love that alien

985
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:49,330
big cats like that Paul the attack of

986
00:37:54,690 --> 00:37:51,280
the alien big cats but seriously guys

987
00:37:56,940 --> 00:37:54,700
okay so maybe the cats are just natural

988
00:37:59,250 --> 00:37:56,950
creatures but I'm not about as Bigfoot

989
00:38:01,080 --> 00:37:59,260
we don't often get reports of Bigfoot I

990
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:01,090
mean the British Isles is relatively

991
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:04,000
small to places like the states and of

992
00:38:08,430 --> 00:38:06,430
course it's a relatively small island I

993
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:08,440
think nearly and travel in any direction

994
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:11,290
and within 53 miles you can reach the

995
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:14,290
sea so I think I think basically you

996
00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:16,090
know when it comes down to the on

997
00:38:20,220 --> 00:38:17,950
Dolittle reports now and again which we

998
00:38:21,930 --> 00:38:20,230
have had we had we've had a few reports

999
00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:21,940
from their location owners at current

1000
00:38:27,390 --> 00:38:24,190
chasing Staffordshire where people have

1001
00:38:30,330 --> 00:38:27,400
reported on occasions strange sightings

1002
00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:30,340
of a large hairy man or some type of

1003
00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:32,110
creature walking look like which is

1004
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:33,080
covered in hair

1005
00:38:37,060 --> 00:38:34,850
there has been a couple of incidents a

1006
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:37,070
couple reports but there's a real a

1007
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:40,310
seriously lack of evidence in the UK to

1008
00:38:44,770 --> 00:38:42,410
support such a creature because you know

1009
00:38:46,510 --> 00:38:44,780
like I said there isn't many places such

1010
00:38:48,190 --> 00:38:46,520
as a large creature like that could

1011
00:38:50,530 --> 00:38:48,200
survive and live comfortably without

1012
00:38:52,780 --> 00:38:50,540
being regularly seen I just think it's a

1013
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:52,790
it's a part of a bigger point where you

1014
00:38:55,660 --> 00:38:54,290
know these these sorts of things happen

1015
00:38:57,550 --> 00:38:55,670
and they run amok gene and I were

1016
00:39:00,070 --> 00:38:57,560
talking before you guys came on about

1017
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:00,080
the media - and slightly different but

1018
00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:02,570
the way that the media can twist a story

1019
00:39:06,610 --> 00:39:04,700
so that something if you just call it an

1020
00:39:08,860 --> 00:39:06,620
alien big CAD meaning alien it's just

1021
00:39:11,110 --> 00:39:08,870
alien to our shores but then it it just

1022
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,120
spins out of control and even if you

1023
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:13,520
come forward then and say well no this

1024
00:39:17,380 --> 00:39:15,440
is what we meant people will suddenly

1025
00:39:21,550 --> 00:39:17,390
accuse you well no you're part of the

1026
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:21,560
cover-up now aren't you and now you're

1027
00:39:24,610 --> 00:39:23,210
just trying to cover it up by denying

1028
00:39:26,650 --> 00:39:24,620
that you've ever said it or something so

1029
00:39:28,930 --> 00:39:26,660
it's amazing me how quickly these

1030
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:28,940
stories get started and the next thing

1031
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:29,930
you know you have people writing books

1032
00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:32,960
about alien big cats not meaning Cougars

1033
00:39:36,730 --> 00:39:34,670
escaped from zoos or something but

1034
00:39:43,540 --> 00:39:36,740
literally they flew spaceships here from

1035
00:39:45,340 --> 00:39:43,550
the Pleiades or something well actually

1036
00:39:47,050 --> 00:39:45,350
the Arizona is another place we can't

1037
00:39:48,820 --> 00:39:47,060
really deal with that but you know this

1038
00:39:50,650 --> 00:39:48,830
kind of raises the larger question of

1039
00:39:53,380 --> 00:39:50,660
the fact that also you guys are involved

1040
00:39:55,690 --> 00:39:53,390
in the UFO investigation and one of the

1041
00:39:59,470 --> 00:39:55,700
issues of course confronted by all this

1042
00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:59,480
is whether we can take UFOs and merge it

1043
00:40:04,990 --> 00:40:01,760
with other unusual events or does it

1044
00:40:07,690 --> 00:40:05,000
exist all by itself and that's also all

1045
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:07,700
kind of a big controversy so Stephen or

1046
00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:09,650
Dave which one wants to take this all

1047
00:40:14,110 --> 00:40:11,360
off the beach Bay this is a definitely

1048
00:40:18,430 --> 00:40:14,120
all day when it's ESP or paranormal

1049
00:40:20,170 --> 00:40:18,440
related UFOs yeah I mean basically we in

1050
00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:20,180
the 70s we thought pretty much that the

1051
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:22,310
UFO phenomena in the UK was pretty much

1052
00:40:26,890 --> 00:40:24,560
a nuts-and-bolts phenomena if you picked

1053
00:40:28,990 --> 00:40:26,900
up a stone and you theory it hit a well

1054
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:29,000
as times gone on you we've had these

1055
00:40:33,970 --> 00:40:31,490
variations in the UFO sightings across

1056
00:40:35,740 --> 00:40:33,980
the country such as sometimes not being

1057
00:40:38,140 --> 00:40:35,750
picked up on radar when they're clearly

1058
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:38,150
visible in the sky so presume to be

1059
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:41,570
apparitional or see-through or some type

1060
00:40:45,470 --> 00:40:44,090
of manifestation of the UFO but not in

1061
00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:45,480
the physical sense

1062
00:40:49,849 --> 00:40:47,220
and then we have the odd reports where

1063
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:49,859
people who claim to have had very

1064
00:40:55,069 --> 00:40:52,770
profound UFO experiences and gone on to

1065
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:55,079
say that they've experienced apparitions

1066
00:41:00,260 --> 00:40:57,650
of entities and there was a case in

1067
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:00,270
Devon in regard in the farmhouse where

1068
00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:03,599
people who consistently seen UFOs in

1069
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:06,270
close proximity to the building and went

1070
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:08,490
on for numerous weeks claiming that

1071
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:11,250
they've seen apparitions of small

1072
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:13,410
entities so you can say that there is

1073
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:15,390
some form of power normal aspect and

1074
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:17,520
because of those psychic ramifications

1075
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:20,640
of those UFO experiences there is a gray

1076
00:41:25,339 --> 00:41:23,250
area between the two where the two sides

1077
00:41:27,170 --> 00:41:25,349
of paranormal and the UFO do come

1078
00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:27,180
together and I think they have to sort

1079
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:28,680
of look at those in a different light

1080
00:41:33,289 --> 00:41:31,200
after as opposed to the normal category

1081
00:41:35,059 --> 00:41:33,299
there were UFO sightings which are

1082
00:41:36,980 --> 00:41:35,069
reported by pilots and so on and so

1083
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:36,990
forth so we have to look at two kinds of

1084
00:41:40,609 --> 00:41:38,910
UFOs yeah I think you have to look in

1085
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:40,619
the fact that we have obviously a

1086
00:41:45,319 --> 00:41:43,410
physical phenomena being reported in our

1087
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:45,329
skies such as they're being picked up by

1088
00:41:51,049 --> 00:41:48,960
radar there are visual evidence and also

1089
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:51,059
those those cases where they seem to be

1090
00:41:54,410 --> 00:41:53,040
apparitional there are people in the UK

1091
00:41:56,510 --> 00:41:54,420
which have claimed to have close

1092
00:41:58,880 --> 00:41:56,520
encounters with strange craft but

1093
00:42:01,010 --> 00:41:58,890
between see through them as if the misty

1094
00:42:02,780 --> 00:42:01,020
or the rapp original and some of their

1095
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:02,790
experiences that follow tend to be

1096
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:04,740
closely associated with paranormal

1097
00:42:08,690 --> 00:42:06,569
events so we do have some kind of a

1098
00:42:10,970 --> 00:42:08,700
kateri where some of those profound

1099
00:42:12,980 --> 00:42:10,980
paranormal incidents come together with

1100
00:42:14,539 --> 00:42:12,990
the UFO incidents as well so we kind of

1101
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:14,549
treat them a little bit differently than

1102
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:27,499
fate magazine provides true reports of

1103
00:42:32,180 --> 00:42:29,609
the strange and unknown keep up with the

1104
00:42:35,299 --> 00:42:32,190
latest on angels and miracles psychic

1105
00:42:36,410 --> 00:42:35,309
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1106
00:42:38,660 --> 00:42:36,420
and much much more

1107
00:42:41,329 --> 00:42:38,670
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1108
00:42:45,319 --> 00:42:41,339
magazine call now at one eight hundred

1109
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1110
00:42:51,769 --> 00:42:48,869
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1111
00:42:59,859 --> 00:42:51,779
calm that's one eight hundred seven two

1112
00:43:03,229 --> 00:42:59,869
eight twenty seven thirty or WWF AEMA g

1113
00:43:06,510 --> 00:43:03,239
calm what are you waiting for your fate

1114
00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:19,200
[Music]

1115
00:43:28,010 --> 00:43:25,470
Dave Sadler Steve Mira joining us from

1116
00:43:30,410 --> 00:43:28,020
the UK we're talking about paranormal

1117
00:43:31,970 --> 00:43:30,420
phenomena UFOs Paul Kimball had a

1118
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:31,980
question yeah sure see if you were

1119
00:43:37,550 --> 00:43:34,800
talking about how you might be able to

1120
00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:37,560
separate UFO cases so you'd have the

1121
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:39,420
nuts-and-bolts UFO cases and then you'd

1122
00:43:44,060 --> 00:43:41,850
have the the more say paranormal UFO

1123
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:44,070
cases do you necessarily have to

1124
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:45,450
separate them or is there the

1125
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:47,970
possibility that the paranormal is

1126
00:43:52,010 --> 00:43:49,890
arthur c clarke would say you know any

1127
00:43:53,810 --> 00:43:52,020
science that's a bit sufficiently

1128
00:43:55,460 --> 00:43:53,820
advanced beyond ours would see i'll be

1129
00:43:58,070 --> 00:43:55,470
magic or you could sub in the word

1130
00:44:00,740 --> 00:43:58,080
paranormal i suppose could then just not

1131
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:00,750
be a manifestation of whatever the ufos

1132
00:44:05,330 --> 00:44:02,730
are so that you don't necessarily have

1133
00:44:08,180 --> 00:44:05,340
to separate them that the same UFO that

1134
00:44:10,220 --> 00:44:08,190
a radar basin in the united kingdom i'd

1135
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:10,230
pick up might also have paranormal

1136
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:12,210
characteristics that somebody could

1137
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:14,610
experience somewhere else and i'd ask

1138
00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:16,050
you about this the most famous probably

1139
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:18,270
the most famous UK case the Randalls

1140
00:44:22,430 --> 00:44:20,730
from Forrest case in 1980 Randall's from

1141
00:44:25,490 --> 00:44:22,440
Forrest has very long history that has

1142
00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:25,500
nothing to do with UFOs hauntings and

1143
00:44:30,650 --> 00:44:28,350
paranormal related incidents stretching

1144
00:44:31,730 --> 00:44:30,660
back for centuries man I've been there

1145
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:31,740
it's a creepy place

1146
00:44:38,690 --> 00:44:34,410
so is it possible that the Rendlesham

1147
00:44:40,820 --> 00:44:38,700
UFO case is not divorced from the sort

1148
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:40,830
of paranormal happenings or reports that

1149
00:44:44,180 --> 00:44:42,180
take plate have taken place for

1150
00:44:46,220 --> 00:44:44,190
centuries in and around the forest

1151
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:46,230
itself and if that's the case what does

1152
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:48,930
that say about UFOs or the UFO case in

1153
00:44:52,970 --> 00:44:51,210
particular it Rendlesham yeah I think

1154
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:52,980
when we're saying that we actually deal

1155
00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:54,510
with things slightly differently when it

1156
00:44:58,940 --> 00:44:56,460
comes to the paranormal side of UFO

1157
00:45:00,890 --> 00:44:58,950
encounters what that basically tells is

1158
00:45:03,110 --> 00:45:00,900
why we separate those is for research

1159
00:45:05,450 --> 00:45:03,120
purposes and the method on our

1160
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:05,460
investigation because when people are

1161
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:07,440
starting to experience the more sort of

1162
00:45:12,140 --> 00:45:10,170
paranormal the orientated side of UFO

1163
00:45:14,530 --> 00:45:12,150
experience and there's such things as

1164
00:45:16,850 --> 00:45:14,540
extrasensory perception there's the

1165
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:16,860
psychological aspects and the

1166
00:45:21,020 --> 00:45:18,480
physiological aspects that we have to

1167
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:21,030
investigate when we're talking a radar

1168
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:23,250
deset too exciting in the sky which is

1169
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:25,410
reported by pilots we don't tend to get

1170
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:27,210
involved in the psychological and the

1171
00:45:31,810 --> 00:45:29,490
and the ESP side of things tends to be a

1172
00:45:34,450 --> 00:45:31,820
sort of a hard-hitting case

1173
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:34,460
we circulate those to is basically is

1174
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:36,170
because it's our pattern of

1175
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:38,810
investigation changes slightly but the

1176
00:45:42,370 --> 00:45:40,400
whole thing with regarding the whole

1177
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:42,380
subject of the UFO phenomena it could

1178
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:45,290
simply be though is it can simply have

1179
00:45:49,660 --> 00:45:47,450
these different metaphysical aspects to

1180
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:49,670
the phenomenon where it can seem to be

1181
00:45:54,430 --> 00:45:52,160
paranormal you all infected or it can be

1182
00:45:56,590 --> 00:45:54,440
of a physical nature you know it could

1183
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:56,600
be just one subject which we really are

1184
00:45:59,530 --> 00:45:57,650
trying to approach it from different

1185
00:46:02,440 --> 00:45:59,540
sides to try and find some different

1186
00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:02,450
answers but absolute endl shambhala mean

1187
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:04,310
I visited there a number of times and

1188
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:06,770
yes it's a very paranormally orientated

1189
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:08,510
through history you know there'll be

1190
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:10,160
lots of hauntings and strange things

1191
00:46:14,530 --> 00:46:12,170
been seen in there and reported left it

1192
00:46:16,780 --> 00:46:14,540
is also coincidental that you know that

1193
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:16,790
an instance such as the Rendlesham

1194
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:19,040
forest UFO case actually took place

1195
00:46:23,350 --> 00:46:20,480
there and you can't draw comparisons

1196
00:46:25,390 --> 00:46:23,360
across the UK where certain hotspots of

1197
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:25,400
paranormal activity are being reported

1198
00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:28,160
and also UFO reports of sightings is it

1199
00:46:33,610 --> 00:46:31,430
possible that the UFO cases and the

1200
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:33,620
paranormal stuff is all related in the

1201
00:46:37,690 --> 00:46:35,810
sense my friend and many people have

1202
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,700
speculated about this but my my friend

1203
00:46:42,700 --> 00:46:39,920
delayed mac tony surpassed me last year

1204
00:46:44,650 --> 00:46:42,710
would make these kind of links where he

1205
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:44,660
would say well Greg Bishop does the same

1206
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:46,850
thing it's an overarching intelligence

1207
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:48,050
what we're dealing with is some

1208
00:46:53,650 --> 00:46:51,050
non-human intelligence and it manifests

1209
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:53,660
itself in many different ways when

1210
00:46:57,790 --> 00:46:55,520
dealing with different types of people

1211
00:47:00,160 --> 00:46:57,800
so if you're dealing with airplane

1212
00:47:02,590 --> 00:47:00,170
pilots or military pilots or police

1213
00:47:04,660 --> 00:47:02,600
officers perhaps perhaps you have a more

1214
00:47:06,010 --> 00:47:04,670
or let's just say people in the Western

1215
00:47:09,100 --> 00:47:06,020
world with a certain level of education

1216
00:47:11,650 --> 00:47:09,110
and technological sophistication you now

1217
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:11,660
manifest yourself and appear to them in

1218
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:14,480
the form of alien spacecraft or things

1219
00:47:17,980 --> 00:47:16,160
that they would perhaps understand or

1220
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:17,990
would resonate with them but if you're

1221
00:47:21,970 --> 00:47:20,000
dealing perhaps with less let's say

1222
00:47:24,190 --> 00:47:21,980
technologically sophisticated people or

1223
00:47:26,410 --> 00:47:24,200
even more superstitious people or even

1224
00:47:28,210 --> 00:47:26,420
religious people maybe you manifest

1225
00:47:30,130 --> 00:47:28,220
yourself in different ways to those

1226
00:47:32,410 --> 00:47:30,140
people but is it possible that we're

1227
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:32,420
just dealing with one overarching

1228
00:47:36,460 --> 00:47:34,610
intelligence that just chooses to

1229
00:47:39,340 --> 00:47:36,470
manifest itself in different ways

1230
00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:39,350
depending on our circumstances I think

1231
00:47:43,620 --> 00:47:41,630
he's very possible I think I either said

1232
00:47:45,630 --> 00:47:43,630
that you know obviously dude

1233
00:47:48,180 --> 00:47:45,640
out of you iPhone reported incidents

1234
00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:48,190
throughout the UK are significantly

1235
00:47:52,110 --> 00:47:50,470
different a lot of them than than they

1236
00:47:54,290 --> 00:47:52,120
are in other countries we have the

1237
00:47:57,420 --> 00:47:54,300
cultural aspect I mean if we take just

1238
00:47:59,820 --> 00:47:57,430
an example the alien abduction phenomena

1239
00:48:02,040 --> 00:47:59,830
which was strife across TV in kg on the

1240
00:48:03,780 --> 00:48:02,050
1980s a lot of it was probably media

1241
00:48:06,030 --> 00:48:03,790
driven through very popular television

1242
00:48:07,710 --> 00:48:06,040
programs at that time and but

1243
00:48:09,930 --> 00:48:07,720
nevertheless though people did report

1244
00:48:11,490 --> 00:48:09,940
such incidents the incidents in

1245
00:48:13,770 --> 00:48:11,500
throughout the UK are very more

1246
00:48:16,110 --> 00:48:13,780
spiritual the more contact heats out

1247
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:16,120
cases as opposed to the kicking and

1248
00:48:19,410 --> 00:48:17,770
screaming abductions which often

1249
00:48:21,870 --> 00:48:19,420
reported from you know from different

1250
00:48:23,850 --> 00:48:21,880
places of the around the world

1251
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:23,860
so this country doesn't tend to have

1252
00:48:28,350 --> 00:48:26,170
many you could say people will say that

1253
00:48:30,990 --> 00:48:28,360
they've been forcefully taken you can

1254
00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:31,000
turn together a lot of people reporting

1255
00:48:34,740 --> 00:48:33,310
spiritual type experiences or contact

1256
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:34,750
any type exposes when they've gone

1257
00:48:38,810 --> 00:48:37,210
willingly and I think basically we're

1258
00:48:41,940 --> 00:48:38,820
dealing with it's a cultural aspect

1259
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:41,950
simply what separates that the two

1260
00:48:45,870 --> 00:48:43,930
things are two types of incidents most

1261
00:48:47,370 --> 00:48:45,880
of the UFO sightings that I've been

1262
00:48:50,820 --> 00:48:47,380
involved in UFO cases I've been involved

1263
00:48:52,830 --> 00:48:50,830
in over the past 13 14 years attendants

1264
00:48:53,490 --> 00:48:52,840
have been easily rationalized easily

1265
00:48:56,010 --> 00:48:53,500
explained

1266
00:48:58,350 --> 00:48:56,020
nuts and bolts phenomena and I think

1267
00:49:00,750 --> 00:48:58,360
that the high proportion and like let's

1268
00:49:03,450 --> 00:49:00,760
let's pick a ballpark of 98 percent of

1269
00:49:05,370 --> 00:49:03,460
the sizes that come in have no psychic

1270
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:05,380
ramifications have no paranormal aspects

1271
00:49:09,390 --> 00:49:06,850
related to them the mainland lots of

1272
00:49:12,690 --> 00:49:09,400
bold UFO cases where you're able to say

1273
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:12,700
okay something in the sky again because

1274
00:49:18,060 --> 00:49:15,370
it's historical as soon as you've seen

1275
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:18,070
the UFO its historical usually you can't

1276
00:49:21,420 --> 00:49:19,690
look into it the way you come to

1277
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:21,430
paranormal but when you see you know

1278
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:23,770
most the people in the UK the people I

1279
00:49:28,380 --> 00:49:25,930
spoke to have claimed to be contact

1280
00:49:29,970 --> 00:49:28,390
these explain to our spiritual things

1281
00:49:32,310 --> 00:49:29,980
that cares for them by the UFOs have

1282
00:49:34,140 --> 00:49:32,320
mainly been people who are at the same

1283
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:34,150
time claiming to be mediums claiming to

1284
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:36,490
be spiritualist and personally I've got

1285
00:49:42,330 --> 00:49:41,440
a big no-go area with that see how to

1286
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:42,340
change it all that

1287
00:49:45,990 --> 00:49:44,200
so in respects to the psychic

1288
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:46,000
ramifications of the paranormal aspects

1289
00:49:51,870 --> 00:49:48,850
in the UK I don't believe it's as big as

1290
00:49:53,790 --> 00:49:51,880
it is over in the u.s. instead of

1291
00:49:55,350 --> 00:49:53,800
I've just always been fascinated because

1292
00:49:57,720 --> 00:49:55,360
if you talk to what you would normally

1293
00:49:59,660 --> 00:49:57,730
call the nuts-and-bolts UFO researchers

1294
00:50:03,720 --> 00:49:59,670
particularly I find in the United States

1295
00:50:06,060 --> 00:50:03,730
they shy away from anything that would

1296
00:50:09,150 --> 00:50:06,070
smack of religion or faith or

1297
00:50:10,530 --> 00:50:09,160
spirituality or new-age that's the sort

1298
00:50:13,740 --> 00:50:10,540
of term that they would use to denigrate

1299
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:13,750
anything beyond pure science then you

1300
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:15,730
run into people like valet who I think

1301
00:50:20,370 --> 00:50:17,920
very quickly got frustrated with that

1302
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:20,380
and we're looking for larger patterns

1303
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:22,330
and I think the nuts and bolts people

1304
00:50:24,060 --> 00:50:23,770
just said okay there's something in the

1305
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:24,070
sky

1306
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:26,800
it's got to be aliens from Zeta Reticuli

1307
00:50:30,690 --> 00:50:28,480
because I'm a scientist and that's what

1308
00:50:31,710 --> 00:50:30,700
makes sense to me and they point the

1309
00:50:33,780 --> 00:50:31,720
patterns they'll say well we have

1310
00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:33,790
certain types of cases or you know we

1311
00:50:38,190 --> 00:50:35,590
have cone-shaped UFOs and cigar-shaped

1312
00:50:40,590 --> 00:50:38,200
UFOs so they're all about patterns when

1313
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:40,600
it buttresses their own preconceived

1314
00:50:44,460 --> 00:50:42,730
notion of what it should be but when you

1315
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:44,470
point out that there are larger patterns

1316
00:50:49,890 --> 00:50:46,770
that the UFO phenomenon has been

1317
00:50:52,410 --> 00:50:49,900
existing long before Roswell the 1940s

1318
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:52,420
it's them seeing things in the sky have

1319
00:50:56,220 --> 00:50:54,400
been with us for our entire history it's

1320
00:50:58,590 --> 00:50:56,230
just we tend to see different things at

1321
00:51:01,320 --> 00:50:58,600
different times in our history they run

1322
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,330
away from that screaming if you come

1323
00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:03,040
forward as Nick Redfern heads and said

1324
00:51:06,270 --> 00:51:04,110
well maybe there's a link between

1325
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:06,280
certain different paranormal subjects

1326
00:51:10,770 --> 00:51:09,010
maybe Bigfoot and UFOs in some way are

1327
00:51:13,290 --> 00:51:10,780
related because if you look at Bigfoot

1328
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:13,300
cases in certain UFO cases you'll find

1329
00:51:16,980 --> 00:51:15,520
that there are similarities in ones

1330
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:16,990
being reported in the cases in

1331
00:51:20,730 --> 00:51:18,970
particular I think electromagnetic

1332
00:51:22,590 --> 00:51:20,740
interference loss of power that kind of

1333
00:51:24,330 --> 00:51:22,600
thing and they'll run away again from

1334
00:51:25,770 --> 00:51:24,340
that and they'll say to people like Nick

1335
00:51:29,580 --> 00:51:25,780
well you don't know what you're talking

1336
00:51:32,250 --> 00:51:29,590
about stick to aliens and do you Steve

1337
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:32,260
the or data do you sort of see that

1338
00:51:35,970 --> 00:51:34,450
those kinds of patterns that we have to

1339
00:51:38,730 --> 00:51:35,980
be more open-minded about what the

1340
00:51:40,890 --> 00:51:38,740
possibilities are that these for sure

1341
00:51:42,510 --> 00:51:40,900
definitely I mean we can't obviously

1342
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:42,520
contain ourselves within just one

1343
00:51:47,820 --> 00:51:44,890
subject because they're clearly there is

1344
00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:47,830
connections with all the incidents I

1345
00:51:52,110 --> 00:51:49,960
mean there was a space of incidents in

1346
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:52,120
the States and remember and some years

1347
00:51:56,250 --> 00:51:54,730
back where well it was seem to be some

1348
00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:56,260
type of connection with you I feel like

1349
00:52:00,360 --> 00:51:58,630
Timothy and Bigfoot activity I believe

1350
00:52:02,610 --> 00:52:00,370
that some strange life had been seen in

1351
00:52:04,529 --> 00:52:02,620
these beings which were large and tall

1352
00:52:06,269 --> 00:52:04,539
and hairy will see that the

1353
00:52:08,099 --> 00:52:06,279
as well and it caused a little bit of a

1354
00:52:09,870 --> 00:52:08,109
stir I know that there was some very

1355
00:52:12,839 --> 00:52:09,880
strange and profound things which do

1356
00:52:15,299 --> 00:52:12,849
collect and maybe we are looking at the

1357
00:52:17,189 --> 00:52:15,309
subject within pieces as opposed to the

1358
00:52:19,859 --> 00:52:17,199
fall pitch so you could be it could be

1359
00:52:22,859 --> 00:52:19,869
right on suggesting now I like that the

1360
00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:22,869
full pitch it's very British sounds to

1361
00:52:27,269 --> 00:52:25,049
me like somebody's selling something or

1362
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:27,279
maybe that's being provincial because

1363
00:52:30,929 --> 00:52:28,689
those of us who live in the colonies

1364
00:52:32,339 --> 00:52:30,939
don't understand us but that's also the

1365
00:52:34,229 --> 00:52:32,349
thing that troubles me about UFO

1366
00:52:36,299 --> 00:52:34,239
research because I think early on when I

1367
00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:36,309
started getting involved in this even

1368
00:52:40,679 --> 00:52:38,380
getting into the 1960s when I was really

1369
00:52:41,429 --> 00:52:40,689
young I'm not as old as I sound back in

1370
00:52:43,709 --> 00:52:41,439
the 60s

1371
00:52:46,949 --> 00:52:43,719
I started thinking you know this has to

1372
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,959
be more all-encompassing than just

1373
00:52:50,819 --> 00:52:48,640
things in the sky we weren't talking so

1374
00:52:53,219 --> 00:52:50,829
much about Zeta Reticuli I think Zeta

1375
00:52:55,529 --> 00:52:53,229
Reticuli came out of that Hill abduction

1376
00:52:58,919 --> 00:52:55,539
because of the star map the star map

1377
00:53:00,689 --> 00:52:58,929
supposedly identified who Zeta Reticuli

1378
00:53:02,489 --> 00:53:00,699
although there are other versions of the

1379
00:53:05,309 --> 00:53:02,499
star map that specifies something else

1380
00:53:08,779 --> 00:53:05,319
just used a Reticuli as a catch-all

1381
00:53:11,249 --> 00:53:08,789
phrase for any planet not named earth so

1382
00:53:12,779 --> 00:53:11,259
if there are Zeta Reticulans here I

1383
00:53:14,429 --> 00:53:12,789
don't want them showing up at my door

1384
00:53:18,299 --> 00:53:14,439
tonight going hey how come you're

1385
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:18,309
blazing gentlemen any Zeta Reticulans or

1386
00:53:22,439 --> 00:53:20,650
Reticulans or whatever they call

1387
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:22,449
themselves if you know Paul Campbell's

1388
00:53:27,509 --> 00:53:25,569
address he needs to be abducted that's

1389
00:53:28,890 --> 00:53:27,519
another point seriously Steven I'm gonna

1390
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:28,900
be abducted I want to be abducted by

1391
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:33,729
Billy Meyers hot Nordic Pleiadians those

1392
00:53:37,620 --> 00:53:35,650
ones can show up at my door tonight yeah

1393
00:53:40,529 --> 00:53:37,630
they probably moved on from the 70 jump

1394
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,539
oh I know it's a terrible shame the

1395
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,640
aliens were you know it's funny and I

1396
00:53:47,459 --> 00:53:44,559
saw it gene I interrupted you there no

1397
00:53:51,689 --> 00:53:47,469
it's okay interrupt and go ahead I'll

1398
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:51,699
just sit back here now sniffle I've

1399
00:53:54,479 --> 00:53:53,049
always wondered what it says about our

1400
00:53:56,939 --> 00:53:54,489
sis modern society

1401
00:53:59,130 --> 00:53:56,949
I think the UFO phenomenon speaks a lot

1402
00:54:01,609 --> 00:53:59,140
in some respects to the society we live

1403
00:54:04,739 --> 00:54:01,619
in now we have these very scientific

1404
00:54:06,779 --> 00:54:04,749
heartless cold Grey's that seem to

1405
00:54:09,179 --> 00:54:06,789
experiment on us and I think that speaks

1406
00:54:10,949 --> 00:54:09,189
a lot to our own fears about the way

1407
00:54:13,469 --> 00:54:10,959
science is progressing in our and

1408
00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:13,479
divorcing from sort of who we are as

1409
00:54:16,359 --> 00:54:16,089
individuals whereas in the 50s and the

1410
00:54:18,430 --> 00:54:16,369
sick

1411
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:18,440
seats with the contact team movement if

1412
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:20,480
I had to choose I'd I'd hang out with

1413
00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:22,730
the contactee people they seem to be fun

1414
00:54:26,799 --> 00:54:24,710
they seem to be more spiritual and there

1415
00:54:29,289 --> 00:54:26,809
aliens seem to be a lot more friendly

1416
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:29,299
and a better message which was you know

1417
00:54:33,609 --> 00:54:30,910
don't love to play with nukes

1418
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:33,619
there was Truman bedroom I believe was

1419
00:54:40,329 --> 00:54:35,450
that the one who went out with or

1420
00:54:42,849 --> 00:54:40,339
arraigns or is that Dan fry those two

1421
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:42,859
seem to blur in my consciousness but one

1422
00:54:47,499 --> 00:54:45,200
of them was taken aboard a spaceship by

1423
00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:47,509
Laura Raines who came from a planet that

1424
00:54:53,859 --> 00:54:50,569
is opposite of the earth so we never see

1425
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:53,869
it rains it sounds like she comes from a

1426
00:54:59,710 --> 00:54:56,480
planet and in Los Angeles right next to

1427
00:55:02,230 --> 00:54:59,720
the magazine building I'd say that's

1428
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:02,240
quite the name yeah I understand working

1429
00:55:06,999 --> 00:55:04,880
nights now in Las Vegas I think you'll

1430
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:07,009
agree with me though currently in the UK

1431
00:55:13,150 --> 00:55:10,640
because of yeah we'll call it culture

1432
00:55:16,059 --> 00:55:13,160
and the media driven the paranormal is

1433
00:55:18,279 --> 00:55:16,069
big thing in the UK it's right up there

1434
00:55:19,989 --> 00:55:18,289
everybody wants to be a Ghostbuster

1435
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:19,999
everybody thinks that an instant expert

1436
00:55:24,940 --> 00:55:22,730
of the subject everybody's painter what

1437
00:55:28,299 --> 00:55:24,950
we call paper booze paint a house in

1438
00:55:30,489 --> 00:55:28,309
Vasek which because of this big cultural

1439
00:55:32,739 --> 00:55:30,499
diversity now where everybody's into the

1440
00:55:34,420 --> 00:55:32,749
paranormal I can't remember the last

1441
00:55:36,519 --> 00:55:34,430
time I actually spoke to anybody who

1442
00:55:38,910 --> 00:55:36,529
claims to have any apart from obviously

1443
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:38,920
UFO sightings which normally in the UK

1444
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:41,839
was Steve think you'll agree again has

1445
00:55:46,690 --> 00:55:43,249
been wet over the past couple of years

1446
00:55:48,999 --> 00:55:46,700
we know major UFO cases with no London's

1447
00:55:50,859 --> 00:55:49,009
reporting without no contact these

1448
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:50,869
without looking of consequence other

1449
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:54,319
than lights in the sky paranormal

1450
00:55:58,059 --> 00:55:56,450
because of media driven and and

1451
00:56:00,039 --> 00:55:58,069
obviously that's people's perceptions

1452
00:56:01,359 --> 00:56:00,049
currently in the UK yeah of course we

1453
00:56:02,739 --> 00:56:01,369
can't we can't get away from the fact

1454
00:56:04,660 --> 00:56:02,749
that we probably live in the country

1455
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:04,670
which is probably those power normally

1456
00:56:09,339 --> 00:56:06,559
orientated country on the blood I look

1457
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:09,349
for women it's a huge amount of history

1458
00:56:14,620 --> 00:56:11,450
that our country has regarded battles

1459
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:14,630
and wishes taken place and stately homes

1460
00:56:18,849 --> 00:56:16,640
which are haunted castles and so on and

1461
00:56:21,579 --> 00:56:18,859
so forth England does seem to be the

1462
00:56:23,529 --> 00:56:21,589
place for the paranormal if people want

1463
00:56:25,420 --> 00:56:23,539
to come and come and believe that just

1464
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:25,430
you want to see a ghost there does seem

1465
00:56:30,759 --> 00:56:27,890
to be the place as Paul

1466
00:56:32,500 --> 00:56:30,769
yeah which here you know it's my old

1467
00:56:35,740 --> 00:56:32,510
days from college radio that segues

1468
00:56:37,870 --> 00:56:35,750
nicely into ghosts because England does

1469
00:56:39,730 --> 00:56:37,880
seem to be England Scotland Wales that

1470
00:56:42,339 --> 00:56:39,740
entire area I mean I'm sure the Germans

1471
00:56:46,180 --> 00:56:42,349
have lots of ghosts some metaphorical

1472
00:56:47,769 --> 00:56:46,190
and some literal but England is probably

1473
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:47,779
you know seems like the most haunted

1474
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:50,510
place there is we visited when we were

1475
00:56:53,950 --> 00:56:52,130
doing ghost cases some of those haunted

1476
00:56:56,980 --> 00:56:53,960
places I'd like to talk about some of

1477
00:56:59,289 --> 00:56:56,990
those in particular I'd like to start

1478
00:57:01,059 --> 00:56:59,299
maybe Dave tell us about the shock lack

1479
00:57:03,460 --> 00:57:01,069
Church case which you guys have

1480
00:57:04,779 --> 00:57:03,470
investigated and then which Holly and I

1481
00:57:06,970 --> 00:57:04,789
went in with you and Steven we

1482
00:57:09,069 --> 00:57:06,980
investigated for ghost cases tell us the

1483
00:57:10,539 --> 00:57:09,079
background of the shock like Church case

1484
00:57:12,579 --> 00:57:10,549
which I which i think is just a

1485
00:57:14,529 --> 00:57:12,589
fascinating case particularly as I was

1486
00:57:16,779 --> 00:57:14,539
there and both Holly and I experienced

1487
00:57:18,370 --> 00:57:16,789
something at the church or more than

1488
00:57:19,870 --> 00:57:18,380
something yeah so maybe you can take us

1489
00:57:21,759 --> 00:57:19,880
through the shock glad case which which

1490
00:57:23,799 --> 00:57:21,769
is a great ghost case move from UFOs to

1491
00:57:25,630 --> 00:57:23,809
ghosts and let me warn you before you

1492
00:57:28,359 --> 00:57:25,640
start that we're gonna break for the

1493
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:28,369
hourly hiatus in just a couple of

1494
00:57:31,839 --> 00:57:29,930
minutes so you can start in the case on

1495
00:57:35,740 --> 00:57:31,849
this section then we'll resume on the

1496
00:57:38,019 --> 00:57:35,750
other section okay basically st. Peter's

1497
00:57:41,499 --> 00:57:38,029
Church in shock clock is a thirteenth

1498
00:57:42,910 --> 00:57:41,509
sorry 12th century UK Church it's very

1499
00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:42,920
old it's very beautiful it's very

1500
00:57:47,289 --> 00:57:45,200
picturesque and it's built in the middle

1501
00:57:50,410 --> 00:57:47,299
of nowhere suggested as built in the

1502
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:50,420
middle of nowhere because of lappers at

1503
00:57:53,890 --> 00:57:51,920
the time they would go into the church

1504
00:57:56,769 --> 00:57:53,900
there wasn't possibly a leper Hospital

1505
00:57:58,299 --> 00:57:56,779
at the location because obviously they

1506
00:58:01,210 --> 00:57:58,309
could go in the field surrounded the

1507
00:58:02,499 --> 00:58:01,220
church for for worship and such like and

1508
00:58:06,370 --> 00:58:02,509
other people could come to the church

1509
00:58:07,809 --> 00:58:06,380
from afar now we've done a lot of hell

1510
00:58:09,490 --> 00:58:07,819
of a lot of man-hours were talking

1511
00:58:11,410 --> 00:58:09,500
hundreds maybe into a thousands of

1512
00:58:14,829 --> 00:58:11,420
man-hours at the site and again the past

1513
00:58:18,130 --> 00:58:14,839
1314 years and it's always produced

1514
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:18,140
something odd I've witnessed things up

1515
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:20,480
and I'm not talking physical things I'm

1516
00:58:24,009 --> 00:58:21,920
not talking apparitions I actually

1517
00:58:26,829 --> 00:58:24,019
witnessed a time slip there about eight

1518
00:58:28,690 --> 00:58:26,839
years ago but these other said as time

1519
00:58:30,730 --> 00:58:28,700
slips witnessed his operations witnessed

1520
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:30,740
this sounds witnessed Paul and Holly

1521
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:33,410
witnessed something I reported and well

1522
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:35,210
Holly actually reported something to me

1523
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:37,010
word for word

1524
00:58:42,220 --> 00:58:39,650
exactly the words that at least 13

1525
00:58:44,590 --> 00:58:42,230
different other witnesses none of whom

1526
00:58:48,610 --> 00:58:44,600
were connected word for word as reported

1527
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:48,620
to me how the area seems to be not quite

1528
00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:49,250
right

1529
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:51,830
for those who read or watch the Harry

1530
00:58:59,500 --> 00:58:55,490
Potter films in one of the books there's

1531
00:59:01,420 --> 00:58:59,510
there in the The Wizard government place

1532
00:59:03,250 --> 00:59:01,430
and there's a curtain like a curtain and

1533
00:59:04,690 --> 00:59:03,260
we go through the curtain there's

1534
00:59:06,490 --> 00:59:04,700
something on the other side and that's

1535
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:06,500
what everybody reports it's your clock

1536
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:08,930
is something on the other side it's not

1537
00:59:12,610 --> 00:59:10,400
quite able to touch it but there's

1538
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:12,620
something there again with the

1539
00:59:17,170 --> 00:59:14,810
apparitions we've seen people we've had

1540
00:59:18,940 --> 00:59:17,180
the reported people annealing of the

1541
00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:18,950
graves we've had lights reported without

1542
00:59:24,490 --> 00:59:20,710
singing from internal of the church

1543
00:59:26,110 --> 00:59:24,500
we've had and this is where Paolo jump

1544
00:59:29,830 --> 00:59:26,120
on straight away we've had the sounds of

1545
00:59:32,170 --> 00:59:29,840
horses reported horses foods now it's

1546
00:59:35,710 --> 00:59:32,180
alleged historically that it's the

1547
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:35,720
Briton funeral cortege which come in

1548
00:59:43,390 --> 00:59:37,510
down to the church to Barry was the

1549
00:59:46,030 --> 00:59:43,400
Briton family we should just break this

1550
00:59:50,620 --> 00:59:46,040
and keep the cliffhanger going does that

1551
00:59:53,230 --> 00:59:50,630
work for you Yeah right sure Dave will

1552
00:59:55,450 --> 00:59:53,240
have Dave Sadler and Steve Mehra and

1553
00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:55,460
Dave will it give us what they say on

1554
01:00:03,480 --> 00:59:58,130
another show the rest of the story on

1555
01:00:09,450 --> 01:00:06,900
so Frank what do you think about UFOs I

1556
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:09,460
saw one once I think they're out there

1557
01:00:13,230 --> 01:00:12,010
know what they are I don't know well I

1558
01:00:14,910 --> 01:00:13,240
believe that something is out there I

1559
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:14,920
think that those things that you see in

1560
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:17,050
the sky are only one small manifestation

1561
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:18,970
of a whole wide range of phenomena that

1562
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:21,850
people haven't properly need or have

1563
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:30,970
attributed the wrong source to we want

1564
01:00:35,370 --> 01:00:33,130
to hear from you if you have a comment a

1565
01:00:37,860 --> 01:00:35,380
question about the pair cast send it to

1566
01:00:41,100 --> 01:00:37,870
news at the podcast calm

1567
01:00:43,050 --> 01:00:41,110
that's news at the pair cast calm and

1568
01:00:44,610 --> 01:00:43,060
don't forget to visit our forums where

1569
01:00:47,310 --> 01:00:44,620
you can talk to fellow listeners and

1570
01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:47,320
Jean and David just go to the para cast

1571
01:00:59,550 --> 01:00:50,140
calm and click on the forum links that's

1572
01:01:07,980 --> 01:01:01,960
welcome back to the parrot house with

1573
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:10,740
we return which Dave Sadler's Steve Mara

1574
01:01:15,660 --> 01:01:13,570
our guest co-host is none other than

1575
01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:15,670
Paul Kimball and if you click on their

1576
01:01:20,310 --> 01:01:18,640
respective names or credits on the para

1577
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:20,320
cast comm you'll learn all about their

1578
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:22,690
books and stuff for example dave has a

1579
01:01:26,970 --> 01:01:24,130
book out called paranormal reality

1580
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:26,980
ghosts UFOs and Pussycats Steve's book

1581
01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:29,410
is strange happenings memoirs of a

1582
01:01:33,570 --> 01:01:31,510
paranormal investigator they're both

1583
01:01:36,770 --> 01:01:33,580
connected with a uk-based organization

1584
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:36,780
called unknown phenomena investigation

1585
01:01:42,900 --> 01:01:40,210
Association 11 them for everything

1586
01:01:46,020 --> 01:01:42,910
later in the show Dave you were telling

1587
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:46,030
us about a haunting please continue yes

1588
01:01:52,290 --> 01:01:49,119
Sherlock Church it's on the airs on the

1589
01:01:54,859 --> 01:01:52,300
border of England of North Wales and the

1590
01:01:57,420 --> 01:01:54,869
other side there and earlier this is a

1591
01:01:59,849 --> 01:01:57,430
location that no matter how many

1592
01:02:02,280 --> 01:01:59,859
occasions I've been something of

1593
01:02:04,290 --> 01:02:02,290
consequence has occurred I witnessed the

1594
01:02:06,180 --> 01:02:04,300
times let other people have always

1595
01:02:07,980 --> 01:02:06,190
witnessed something else the when we

1596
01:02:10,140 --> 01:02:07,990
took along there Paul Holly in the teens

1597
01:02:12,990 --> 01:02:10,150
and ghost cases it was actually Steve's

1598
01:02:14,579 --> 01:02:13,000
first opportunity to come along to heal

1599
01:02:16,740 --> 01:02:14,589
Clark and I know for a fact that Steve's

1600
01:02:19,140 --> 01:02:16,750
going to get back we're just waiting for

1601
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:19,150
the UK weather to get better and we've

1602
01:02:23,609 --> 01:02:21,490
got a long study of work to do there

1603
01:02:25,410 --> 01:02:23,619
because we've come up with some ideas of

1604
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:25,420
what might be causing some of these

1605
01:02:31,109 --> 01:02:28,690
events to to be reported but yeah back

1606
01:02:33,599 --> 01:02:31,119
to the cases themselves we've obviously

1607
01:02:35,940 --> 01:02:33,609
discussed the sounds of the horses the

1608
01:02:38,460 --> 01:02:35,950
Briton funeral cortege there's an old

1609
01:02:39,839 --> 01:02:38,470
lady in rugged peasant lady in ragged

1610
01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:39,849
clothing has been sent them into the

1611
01:02:45,329 --> 01:02:42,310
graves and noses from inside the church

1612
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:45,339
and it's a fantastic area I'm strangely

1613
01:02:49,470 --> 01:02:46,810
there's been a lot of UFO reports

1614
01:02:52,109 --> 01:02:49,480
locally as well there's also not in

1615
01:02:54,660 --> 01:02:52,119
relation to the side port locally a lot

1616
01:02:56,390 --> 01:02:54,670
of witchcraft ancient witchcraft going

1617
01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:56,400
but many many years has been reported

1618
01:03:00,750 --> 01:02:59,200
from the surrounding areas and to be

1619
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:00,760
honest it's one of the most beautiful

1620
01:03:05,839 --> 01:03:03,280
locations of any site that I've visited

1621
01:03:08,130 --> 01:03:05,849
in the UK throughout my years of

1622
01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:08,140
associated in this object in a case

1623
01:03:11,730 --> 01:03:10,240
itself is some of the things that so

1624
01:03:13,710 --> 01:03:11,740
profound I'm just going to tell you a

1625
01:03:15,030 --> 01:03:13,720
little bit about the time sleep slip I

1626
01:03:17,099 --> 01:03:15,040
would say it's in the middle of nowhere

1627
01:03:17,980 --> 01:03:17,109
you can't hear anybody or see anybody

1628
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:17,990
for

1629
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:19,970
four miles away in the nearest road you

1630
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:21,970
have to come down the lane from is a

1631
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:23,570
quarter of a mile away

1632
01:03:27,850 --> 01:03:25,490
I was on the wife to site and we had a

1633
01:03:29,530 --> 01:03:27,860
bit of a thunderstorm not dissimilar to

1634
01:03:31,870 --> 01:03:29,540
the thunderstorm Germany you asked for a

1635
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:31,880
change where it rained it thundered it

1636
01:03:34,540 --> 01:03:33,110
lightning and all of us would never

1637
01:03:36,550 --> 01:03:34,550
think laid open it was a beautiful

1638
01:03:38,050 --> 01:03:36,560
summer's day again myself a colleague

1639
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:38,060
and at the time his seven-year-old

1640
01:03:42,609 --> 01:03:39,770
daughter went to the site just for the

1641
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:42,619
hey let's go to the site some odd things

1642
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:45,200
occurred my colleague had a profound

1643
01:03:51,670 --> 01:03:48,170
human experience he started spouting all

1644
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:51,680
sorts of bomb pottery as though he was

1645
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:53,930
associated with life many many years ago

1646
01:04:00,220 --> 01:03:57,050
he would usually replying to me strange

1647
01:04:02,109 --> 01:04:00,230
bizarre things and when we went to

1648
01:04:05,140 --> 01:04:02,119
discuss that the air the rear of the

1649
01:04:06,970 --> 01:04:05,150
site not long after I asked his daughter

1650
01:04:08,410 --> 01:04:06,980
so I could talk to her dad go run around

1651
01:04:11,140 --> 01:04:08,420
the church so why should she run around

1652
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:11,150
the river leader amateur Jenny I think

1653
01:04:16,060 --> 01:04:12,530
we timed it would should have been about

1654
01:04:17,650 --> 01:04:16,070
35 to a minute 35 seconds to a minute it

1655
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:17,660
would have taught the seven-year-old

1656
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:18,770
girls who were around the church

1657
01:04:23,770 --> 01:04:21,130
actually went round one corner

1658
01:04:25,300 --> 01:04:23,780
immediately she came out the corner

1659
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:25,310
opposite to us so what should have took

1660
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:27,410
quite a lot of time happened immediately

1661
01:04:32,290 --> 01:04:30,050
and that was the most that is the most

1662
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:32,300
profound thing I've ever witnessed in my

1663
01:04:36,550 --> 01:04:35,090
my time with the subject I've witnessed

1664
01:04:38,740 --> 01:04:36,560
not much or anything that could be

1665
01:04:40,660 --> 01:04:38,750
explained or one or two things that are

1666
01:04:44,260 --> 01:04:40,670
still scratching the head - ba ba ba I

1667
01:04:46,060 --> 01:04:44,270
witnessed was bizarre so they said this

1668
01:04:48,370 --> 01:04:46,070
is a sight of the utmost important to us

1669
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:48,380
and because of the time slip because of

1670
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:51,770
additional reports from Holly from Paul

1671
01:04:55,030 --> 01:04:53,450
from all evil witnesses that have come

1672
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:55,040
through the UPI over the years this is

1673
01:04:59,859 --> 01:04:57,290
one of our main I would suggest cases

1674
01:05:01,930 --> 01:04:59,869
that we know just the past 14 years but

1675
01:05:02,980 --> 01:05:01,940
another 14 and another 14 years after

1676
01:05:05,770 --> 01:05:02,990
that we're going to be looking at this

1677
01:05:07,210 --> 01:05:05,780
site it's very odd because I think Dave

1678
01:05:09,700 --> 01:05:07,220
you and I one of the reasons why we get

1679
01:05:11,260 --> 01:05:09,710
along is we sort of have the same point

1680
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:11,270
of view you don't use the word skeptic

1681
01:05:15,250 --> 01:05:13,609
use realists I say skeptic but I think

1682
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:15,260
you know six of one half dozen of the

1683
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:15,650
other

1684
01:05:19,599 --> 01:05:18,170
so shocked lack is kind of a point of

1685
01:05:22,870 --> 01:05:19,609
meeting for both of us because you have

1686
01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:22,880
your time slip which I don't see from

1687
01:05:25,260 --> 01:05:24,800
how you describe it I remember we were

1688
01:05:27,060 --> 01:05:25,270
filming

1689
01:05:29,100 --> 01:05:27,070
it and you were consistently saying well

1690
01:05:30,660 --> 01:05:29,110
you know I don't believe or except in

1691
01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:30,670
the paranormal I don't want to

1692
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:32,230
mischaracterize what you said but

1693
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:33,850
something along those lines and then

1694
01:05:37,860 --> 01:05:35,770
you're talking about a time slip which

1695
01:05:42,750 --> 01:05:37,870
the only word I can use to describe that

1696
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:42,760
is paranormal you you you seem to be

1697
01:05:47,670 --> 01:05:45,430
very leery of the paranormal sort of

1698
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:47,680
word or title or that that thing and I

1699
01:05:51,810 --> 01:05:49,630
understand completely because so am i

1700
01:05:53,580 --> 01:05:51,820
but there as you would recall I was

1701
01:05:56,910 --> 01:05:53,590
sitting behind the church in shock like

1702
01:05:58,740 --> 01:05:56,920
as the night wore on my co-producer Dale

1703
01:06:00,780 --> 01:05:58,750
Stevens was often in another area of the

1704
01:06:03,270 --> 01:06:00,790
churchyard and he wandered over and they

1705
01:06:06,170 --> 01:06:03,280
were filming me just sort of doing some

1706
01:06:08,220 --> 01:06:06,180
Carl Sagan s talking head kind of thing

1707
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:08,230
pontificating about what a lovely place

1708
01:06:12,210 --> 01:06:10,090
it was Dale comes on when he goes home

1709
01:06:14,610 --> 01:06:12,220
you know oh my god I just like saw the

1710
01:06:16,830 --> 01:06:14,620
craziest thing it was if the the sky

1711
01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:16,840
blacked out in this particular thing and

1712
01:06:19,860 --> 01:06:18,190
I went really

1713
01:06:21,750 --> 01:06:19,870
and he said yeah and he looked a little

1714
01:06:24,300 --> 01:06:21,760
embarrassed when he was saying and I

1715
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:24,310
said that's weird cuz I saw pretty much

1716
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:26,410
what you just described only over there

1717
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:29,410
about ten minutes ago and everybody just

1718
01:06:32,580 --> 01:06:30,730
looked at me and said you know why

1719
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:32,590
wouldn't just Holly hit me later she

1720
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:34,000
smacked me and said why wouldn't you say

1721
01:06:37,260 --> 01:06:35,890
something like that because she was

1722
01:06:39,390 --> 01:06:37,270
going Here I am talking about horses

1723
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:39,400
hooves and feeling weird and you were

1724
01:06:42,270 --> 01:06:40,570
having the same thing happen but you

1725
01:06:44,130 --> 01:06:42,280
wouldn't say anything and I said well

1726
01:06:46,260 --> 01:06:44,140
you know my natural inclination is to

1727
01:06:49,170 --> 01:06:46,270
just pocket that and not talk about it

1728
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:49,180
because if you talk about it and what we

1729
01:06:54,420 --> 01:06:52,810
saw gene was if you have a sky you know

1730
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:54,430
the sky is dark anyway but there's some

1731
01:06:58,320 --> 01:06:56,770
residual light coming from towns off in

1732
01:07:02,070 --> 01:06:58,330
the distance over in Wales so it's not a

1733
01:07:04,380 --> 01:07:02,080
complete dark evenin at night but I call

1734
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:04,390
it a void like a Star Trek episode where

1735
01:07:09,780 --> 01:07:07,330
you would see people sort of warp in and

1736
01:07:12,270 --> 01:07:09,790
it would go black for in my case about

1737
01:07:13,860 --> 01:07:12,280
five or six seconds and it would expand

1738
01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:13,870
and then it disappeared and it's not

1739
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:15,760
something flying by what's the barn owl

1740
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:17,890
or anything like that it was it was

1741
01:07:22,890 --> 01:07:20,530
really weird and when Dale described the

1742
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:22,900
exact same thing then you get this idea

1743
01:07:26,820 --> 01:07:25,090
that well okay now I feel better because

1744
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:26,830
somebody who's reasonably intelligent

1745
01:07:32,010 --> 01:07:30,130
and not drunk just saw the same thing

1746
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:32,020
that I saw in a different place so that

1747
01:07:37,890 --> 01:07:35,170
verifies or buttresses my own experience

1748
01:07:39,030 --> 01:07:37,900
but it's that that thing where you guys

1749
01:07:41,250 --> 01:07:39,040
like Dave and I where

1750
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:41,260
we we have trouble admitting that maybe

1751
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:43,090
we experience something as Dave said

1752
01:07:46,710 --> 01:07:45,250
profound do you find that Dave do you

1753
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:46,720
find you have still trouble admitting

1754
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:48,850
that maybe something truly profound

1755
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:51,490
happen to you at sha clack yeah I do I

1756
01:07:55,380 --> 01:07:53,530
think mainly Paul it's because the

1757
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:55,390
amount of locations of spent time at the

1758
01:08:00,180 --> 01:07:58,240
amount of investigation cells I've been

1759
01:08:02,550 --> 01:08:00,190
privy to I've never actually with this

1760
01:08:05,250 --> 01:08:02,560
benefit of consequence so it's hard for

1761
01:08:07,530 --> 01:08:05,260
me to don't get me wrong everything that

1762
01:08:09,660 --> 01:08:07,540
everybody says to me unless I can prove

1763
01:08:11,010 --> 01:08:09,670
that the person is lying or to rip them

1764
01:08:13,230 --> 01:08:11,020
up to a point the beard method they're

1765
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:13,240
not being truthful everything that

1766
01:08:16,710 --> 01:08:14,770
everybody says to me in regards to

1767
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:16,720
reported paranormal activity from

1768
01:08:20,610 --> 01:08:18,850
shock-like from anywhere I believe I

1769
01:08:22,860 --> 01:08:20,620
can't not believe it's just that I'm not

1770
01:08:25,079 --> 01:08:22,870
witnessed anything myself because I'm

1771
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:25,089
not witness and as in personally it's

1772
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:28,510
difficult to appreciate what everybody

1773
01:08:32,660 --> 01:08:30,250
else is trying to say so when something

1774
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:32,670
does occur I think that's right to

1775
01:08:38,849 --> 01:08:36,730
explain it away a little bit too much I

1776
01:08:40,380 --> 01:08:38,859
mean I'm glad to explain today the

1777
01:08:42,809 --> 01:08:40,390
number of times ladies and literally as

1778
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:42,819
a matter of you only experiences I mean

1779
01:08:47,579 --> 01:08:45,010
from investigating the paranormal around

1780
01:08:49,950 --> 01:08:47,589
about 1995 I was pretty much a very much

1781
01:08:52,140 --> 01:08:49,960
a skeptic in paranormal phenomena

1782
01:08:54,620 --> 01:08:52,150
thought everything could be attributed

1783
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:54,630
to psychological conditions

1784
01:09:00,000 --> 01:08:57,370
misinterpretations and those sort of

1785
01:09:02,490 --> 01:09:00,010
things and so had my very own very

1786
01:09:03,650 --> 01:09:02,500
hard-hitting experience in 1990 found in

1787
01:09:06,660 --> 01:09:03,660
Marcel

1788
01:09:08,430 --> 01:09:06,670
showing an investigation of poltergeist

1789
01:09:10,079 --> 01:09:08,440
phenomena I've only have actually been

1790
01:09:12,270 --> 01:09:10,089
lucky enough over 25 years to

1791
01:09:15,059 --> 01:09:12,280
investigate two cases of poltergeist

1792
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:15,069
phenomena and both have been significant

1793
01:09:20,190 --> 01:09:18,010
in my life which which tell me that

1794
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:20,200
who's got to be something more to the

1795
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:21,730
paranormal and that's why it's worthy of

1796
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:24,130
a further investigation and that's the

1797
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:26,290
next thing I want to discuss was to move

1798
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:28,810
from chocolate to the Rochdale case

1799
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:30,850
which is I've heard you talk about it

1800
01:09:35,300 --> 01:09:32,560
and I think mine could do a 90 minute

1801
01:09:38,250 --> 01:09:35,310
film on that easy with just you talking

1802
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:38,260
it's an amazing case so we'll try and

1803
01:09:42,539 --> 01:09:40,210
distill it down you know maybe to five

1804
01:09:44,910 --> 01:09:42,549
or six seven eight whatever minutes but

1805
01:09:47,099 --> 01:09:44,920
before we leave shock lack relating a

1806
01:09:48,809 --> 01:09:47,109
bit to your own experience there seed

1807
01:09:49,660 --> 01:09:48,819
for the first time is Dave said it was

1808
01:09:52,510 --> 01:09:49,670
the first time you'd been

1809
01:09:54,850 --> 01:09:52,520
there and also the way you guys run an

1810
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:54,860
investigation because you experienced

1811
01:09:59,890 --> 01:09:56,690
something it was the light if he

1812
01:10:01,900 --> 01:09:59,900
remember you saw a light perhaps you can

1813
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:01,910
describe the light and then perhaps you

1814
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:04,250
we can talk about well okay we saw

1815
01:10:07,930 --> 01:10:05,570
something let's figure out if we can

1816
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:07,940
find a rational explanation for it

1817
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:10,130
and how do I went about investigating it

1818
01:10:14,350 --> 01:10:12,290
yeah well I was actually situated in the

1819
01:10:16,090 --> 01:10:14,360
back of the church with a long moving

1820
01:10:19,810 --> 01:10:16,100
infrared camera taking some film shots

1821
01:10:21,310 --> 01:10:19,820
and out other side of me wasn't really

1822
01:10:22,750 --> 01:10:21,320
out the corner of my eye actually which

1823
01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:22,760
was quite surprising but I did actually

1824
01:10:27,970 --> 01:10:25,760
see this light appear across a tomb and

1825
01:10:30,459 --> 01:10:27,980
what it was is quite a straight line as

1826
01:10:32,260 --> 01:10:30,469
well I remember remember thinking to

1827
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:32,270
myself is that and someone must be local

1828
01:10:36,910 --> 01:10:35,210
with a light so I went down the corner

1829
01:10:38,830 --> 01:10:36,920
of the church to look for somebody and I

1830
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:38,840
actually couldn't see anybody there so

1831
01:10:43,689 --> 01:10:41,090
when I actually brought it to your

1832
01:10:45,370 --> 01:10:43,699
attention and I initially started

1833
01:10:48,010 --> 01:10:45,380
thinking trying to immediately

1834
01:10:50,110 --> 01:10:48,020
rationalize the experience and thought

1835
01:10:52,900 --> 01:10:50,120
that maybe somebody further down on the

1836
01:10:54,970 --> 01:10:52,910
opposite side of the church in the in

1837
01:10:58,000 --> 01:10:54,980
the lower graveyard neighboring flashing

1838
01:11:00,580 --> 01:10:58,010
a light flashlight around and maybe

1839
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:00,590
somehow it caught a reflection and

1840
01:11:05,410 --> 01:11:03,530
straight up to the top end of the aisle

1841
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:05,420
of the church and of course what we did

1842
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:07,370
is we we went down there we found that

1843
01:11:12,430 --> 01:11:10,730
that Dale was down there and with his

1844
01:11:15,820 --> 01:11:12,440
flashlight looking around some of the

1845
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:15,830
graves literally asking to replicate at

1846
01:11:20,020 --> 01:11:18,290
the see we cook lamb points his

1847
01:11:22,030 --> 01:11:20,030
flashlight in that direction to see if

1848
01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:22,040
it would reach or to the Sun pennant we

1849
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:23,510
are talking quite a considerable

1850
01:11:28,419 --> 01:11:25,730
distance there it was it was nothing

1851
01:11:29,500 --> 01:11:28,429
like it whatsoever and I mean we pretty

1852
01:11:32,380 --> 01:11:29,510
much through that as well as a

1853
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:32,390
flashlight and the light source expands

1854
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:34,610
from a from a flashlight and this was

1855
01:11:40,060 --> 01:11:37,280
very I remember very similar to like

1856
01:11:42,820 --> 01:11:40,070
seeing a light source in aligned as

1857
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:42,830
opposed to a growing light source from a

1858
01:11:47,380 --> 01:11:45,170
flashlight and we couldn't replicate it

1859
01:11:49,810 --> 01:11:47,390
so I can only presume that it must have

1860
01:11:51,970 --> 01:11:49,820
been something from usual that scene but

1861
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:51,980
we did try and try our best to try and

1862
01:11:55,900 --> 01:11:53,690
find out what it could have been if he

1863
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:55,910
was if he was down for something with a

1864
01:12:00,070 --> 01:11:57,650
flashlight that didn't seem the case

1865
01:12:01,310 --> 01:12:00,080
yeah I mean to me that there was of all

1866
01:12:03,220 --> 01:12:01,320
the things I've done in pair

1867
01:12:05,629 --> 01:12:03,230
investigations that was one of the most

1868
01:12:08,419 --> 01:12:05,639
fun moments ahead it only really took us

1869
01:12:09,859 --> 01:12:08,429
five minutes but yeah you know running

1870
01:12:11,870 --> 01:12:09,869
through that process of saying okay

1871
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:11,880
something maybe weird happened let's

1872
01:12:16,010 --> 01:12:14,130
like Sherlock Holmes let's eliminate any

1873
01:12:17,930 --> 01:12:16,020
of the things that we can think of that

1874
01:12:19,910 --> 01:12:17,940
might explain it without resorting to

1875
01:12:21,950 --> 01:12:19,920
the weird stuff and if you can eliminate

1876
01:12:23,839 --> 01:12:21,960
those things then what you're left with

1877
01:12:25,790 --> 01:12:23,849
that no matter how strange might

1878
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:25,800
actually be something that's weird I

1879
01:12:29,180 --> 01:12:27,210
don't know if we eliminated every

1880
01:12:31,310 --> 01:12:29,190
possible explanation but we eliminated

1881
01:12:33,950 --> 01:12:31,320
the one given the location that made the

1882
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:33,960
most sense and yes you say and so once

1883
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:36,090
you do that I actually think that the

1884
01:12:41,959 --> 01:12:39,210
the payoff comes not from experiencing

1885
01:12:43,129 --> 01:12:41,969
something but from eliminating the

1886
01:12:45,140 --> 01:12:43,139
possible explanations

1887
01:12:46,339 --> 01:12:45,150
so because we can all experience

1888
01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:46,349
something but then if you go through and

1889
01:12:49,609 --> 01:12:47,550
say well okay couldn't have been deal

1890
01:12:51,290 --> 01:12:49,619
with this flashlight so what are we left

1891
01:12:54,770 --> 01:12:51,300
with that's when you have your brief

1892
01:12:57,500 --> 01:12:54,780
moment where you go hmm their heads

1893
01:12:59,330 --> 01:12:57,510
together or when Dale came over to me

1894
01:13:01,280 --> 01:12:59,340
and talked about his own black void or

1895
01:13:03,140 --> 01:13:01,290
when Holly talked about her horse sooths

1896
01:13:04,819 --> 01:13:03,150
thing and I said well you really you

1897
01:13:07,010 --> 01:13:04,829
know I heard the same thing too and then

1898
01:13:09,470 --> 01:13:07,020
she hit me again and you know you nod

1899
01:13:11,030 --> 01:13:09,480
your head and go right and you've walked

1900
01:13:13,910 --> 01:13:11,040
we walked around with the horse hooves

1901
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:13,920
and I got tell Eugene like it literally

1902
01:13:17,780 --> 01:13:16,290
sounded as if because in Halifax here we

1903
01:13:19,550 --> 01:13:17,790
have horse-drawn carriages part of the

1904
01:13:22,459 --> 01:13:19,560
tourist trade cobblestone cobblestone

1905
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:22,469
streets and stuff and I know the sound

1906
01:13:26,180 --> 01:13:24,090
and that's exactly and so does Holly

1907
01:13:28,100 --> 01:13:26,190
that's exactly the sound that we both

1908
01:13:30,350 --> 01:13:28,110
thought we heard and there was nothing

1909
01:13:32,419 --> 01:13:30,360
in in the vicinity that could possibly

1910
01:13:34,879 --> 01:13:32,429
have made that sound she heard it twice

1911
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:34,889
I heard it twice and then you just sort

1912
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:36,690
of nod your head and go okay that's

1913
01:13:40,339 --> 01:13:38,130
weird and it's even weirder because

1914
01:13:41,419 --> 01:13:40,349
you've taken the time to take a look to

1915
01:13:43,819 --> 01:13:41,429
see if there's a rational explanation

1916
01:13:45,890 --> 01:13:43,829
for it which I think in the paranormal

1917
01:13:47,270 --> 01:13:45,900
field an awful lot of people don't don't

1918
01:13:49,339 --> 01:13:47,280
bother to go through that stuff they

1919
01:13:52,010 --> 01:13:49,349
just go wow that was crazy and then

1920
01:13:53,540 --> 01:13:52,020
weird and they stop there and I think

1921
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:53,550
it's only weird once you can eliminate

1922
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:55,290
the non weird stuff I also wonder

1923
01:13:59,359 --> 01:13:57,570
sometimes how many people have this gosh

1924
01:14:03,130 --> 01:13:59,369
that was weird and they forget about her

1925
01:14:07,990 --> 01:14:05,580
[Music]

1926
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:08,000
it's time to mend fences here on the

1927
01:14:12,370 --> 01:14:09,410
powertest so we've had our differences

1928
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:12,380
with bill burns and UFO magazine but now

1929
01:14:16,660 --> 01:14:14,570
can't we just get along what do you

1930
01:14:19,450 --> 01:14:16,670
think bill hi everybody this is bill

1931
01:14:21,250 --> 01:14:19,460
burns from UFO magazine I'm glad to be

1932
01:14:23,740 --> 01:14:21,260
back with gene Steinberg on the para

1933
01:14:27,490 --> 01:14:23,750
cast and here's a special offer for all

1934
01:14:30,250 --> 01:14:27,500
you Paradise fans normally we sell five

1935
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:30,260
issues of the magazine for $19.99 guess

1936
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:32,090
what if you're a fan of the pattern cast

1937
01:14:36,100 --> 01:14:33,890
a friend of gene Steinberg's you're my

1938
01:14:39,430 --> 01:14:36,110
friend as well it's six issues of the

1939
01:14:41,620 --> 01:14:39,440
UFO magazine for $19.99 look forward to

1940
01:14:43,420 --> 01:14:41,630
hearing from you and gene thanks for

1941
01:14:45,990 --> 01:14:43,430
having me back so where do we get a hold

1942
01:14:52,990 --> 01:14:46,000
of your bill you can get a hold of me

1943
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:53,000
www UFO mhg calm that's double UFO man

1944
01:15:18,420 --> 01:14:55,050
calm I look forward to hearing from

1945
01:15:18,430 --> 01:15:28,200
[Music]

1946
01:15:34,150 --> 01:15:31,870
we have Dave Sandler Steve Mira their

1947
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:34,160
paranormal investigators from the UK and

1948
01:15:38,950 --> 01:15:36,560
unlike some of us here in the colonies

1949
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:38,960
they take a far more all-encompassing

1950
01:15:43,660 --> 01:15:41,810
view of what's going on our special

1951
01:15:45,940 --> 01:15:43,670
guest host this week is Paul Timbo so

1952
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:45,950
that takes us back to the other thing

1953
01:15:50,860 --> 01:15:48,650
here how many people out there you think

1954
01:15:53,050 --> 01:15:50,870
they're having experiences and they say

1955
01:15:54,970 --> 01:15:53,060
oh that was pretty weird let me get back

1956
01:15:56,980 --> 01:15:54,980
to my life it really has to be severe

1957
01:15:59,050 --> 01:15:56,990
before they report it right totally

1958
01:16:01,840 --> 01:15:59,060
we've got because as I said earlier with

1959
01:16:04,210 --> 01:16:01,850
this current big paranormal trend that's

1960
01:16:06,490 --> 01:16:04,220
come up the the everybody in the media

1961
01:16:08,830 --> 01:16:06,500
is doing something paranormal I've been

1962
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:08,840
Bobby in the media local national

1963
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:11,210
newspapers are doing silly pictures and

1964
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:12,800
silly things that they have claimed to

1965
01:16:17,140 --> 01:16:14,570
be life as enough for modern somebody's

1966
01:16:20,350 --> 01:16:17,150
for a mobile phone in this guy you know

1967
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:20,360
this is everybody is reporting something

1968
01:16:24,970 --> 01:16:22,730
well I think the ones who are reporting

1969
01:16:27,190 --> 01:16:24,980
things of consequence are the ones that

1970
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:27,200
really need to step for because they're

1971
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:29,090
probably the ones that are the most

1972
01:16:31,990 --> 01:16:30,890
interest in and are the most important

1973
01:16:34,270 --> 01:16:32,000
because they're not the bandwagon

1974
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:34,280
jumpers well for my own experience I

1975
01:16:38,020 --> 01:16:36,320
think that's the truth that a lot of

1976
01:16:39,730 --> 01:16:38,030
times not always but a lot of times

1977
01:16:41,770 --> 01:16:39,740
people that come forward are seeking

1978
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:41,780
publicity or there's a lot of other

1979
01:16:47,050 --> 01:16:44,170
things going on I think when people

1980
01:16:48,490 --> 01:16:47,060
generally reasonable rationals even

1981
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:48,500
skeptical people experience something

1982
01:16:53,380 --> 01:16:51,410
weird I think their inclination and Dave

1983
01:16:57,310 --> 01:16:53,390
I think you can see this in both you and

1984
01:16:59,860 --> 01:16:57,320
I is to not tell people or if you do

1985
01:17:02,110 --> 01:16:59,870
tell people laugh it off and sort of say

1986
01:17:03,850 --> 01:17:02,120
well some you know rationalize it so I

1987
01:17:06,370 --> 01:17:03,860
think the more the really interesting

1988
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:06,380
cases a lot of them are the ones where

1989
01:17:11,020 --> 01:17:08,570
you actually have to really pull the

1990
01:17:12,430 --> 01:17:11,030
story out of people because they're

1991
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:12,440
afraid of what you're going to think of

1992
01:17:16,930 --> 01:17:15,170
them because it sounds daft to them and

1993
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:16,940
so they think it's gonna sound daft to

1994
01:17:21,580 --> 01:17:19,370
you this year a low B teets law we want

1995
01:17:25,180 --> 01:17:21,590
two months of the year gone so far the

1996
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:25,190
UPI a received I think 16 documents

1997
01:17:28,770 --> 01:17:27,290
sorry 16 reports that have gone on to

1998
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:28,780
the database

1999
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:31,810
again paranormal big cats you for

2000
01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:34,090
logical I think there's only three of

2001
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:36,490
them that have not been stopped okay yet

2002
01:17:39,750 --> 01:17:38,080
we've been able to answer it this is

2003
01:17:42,450 --> 01:17:39,760
what it is that's what it there you go

2004
01:17:44,700 --> 01:17:42,460
ended three of them cases we've got

2005
01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:44,710
people died arise in advance we've got

2006
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:46,450
people anything that possibly happens

2007
01:17:50,730 --> 01:17:48,490
that they could presume to be paranormal

2008
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:50,740
we've got the document and over a period

2009
01:17:53,850 --> 01:17:52,330
of time we'll go back to them and see if

2010
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:53,860
there is anything a consequence that we

2011
01:17:57,600 --> 01:17:55,810
could see in their report so already

2012
01:18:00,090 --> 01:17:57,610
this year we've we've had a number of

2013
01:18:02,190 --> 01:18:00,100
cases come in I'm not one of them cases

2014
01:18:03,300 --> 01:18:02,200
apart from obviously the big cat scuffle

2015
01:18:05,250 --> 01:18:03,310
we've been out there and done something

2016
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:05,260
nothing of consequence is called for

2017
01:18:09,450 --> 01:18:06,850
many of them cases which has been oh

2018
01:18:10,710 --> 01:18:09,460
yeah I'm really excited let's go and put

2019
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:10,720
that to the top of the West as Steve

2020
01:18:13,890 --> 01:18:12,490
said earlier you know it's really wanted

2021
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:13,900
of an investigation everything has been

2022
01:18:18,660 --> 01:18:16,210
more or less concluded over a matter of

2023
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:18,670
days at the very least so every sound

2024
01:18:23,700 --> 01:18:20,530
but as I'm trying to say that the whole

2025
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:23,710
UK scene with Legaspi paranormal because

2026
01:18:28,470 --> 01:18:26,290
to the UFOs it is fun wagging jumpers at

2027
01:18:30,780 --> 01:18:28,480
the moment age six its most of them an

2028
01:18:33,780 --> 01:18:30,790
orphan of consequence and you know we

2029
01:18:36,570 --> 01:18:33,790
fairly would like people to reconsider

2030
01:18:39,330 --> 01:18:36,580
it that there are organizations not

2031
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:39,340
dissimilar to the EPIA EPIA out there

2032
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:42,250
who aren't needed revenue don't want to

2033
01:18:45,450 --> 01:18:44,050
jump on and get the 15 minutes of fame

2034
01:18:47,340 --> 01:18:45,460
we're actually trying to assist people

2035
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:47,350
and help people insert this bodies of

2036
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:49,330
the subject when you get these ways of

2037
01:18:53,460 --> 01:18:51,370
reporting it's a signal-to-noise kind of

2038
01:18:54,930 --> 01:18:53,470
thing and so there's always a signal

2039
01:18:57,210 --> 01:18:54,940
there those would be the few cases that

2040
01:18:59,670 --> 01:18:57,220
are worse worth looking at but they can

2041
01:19:01,590 --> 01:18:59,680
often get lost in the noise you just

2042
01:19:03,900 --> 01:19:01,600
give me I mean a police officers are the

2043
01:19:05,370 --> 01:19:03,910
same way if you get a rash of cases

2044
01:19:07,290 --> 01:19:05,380
coming in most of which they're easily

2045
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:07,300
resolvable or whatever you know you

2046
01:19:11,610 --> 01:19:09,520
don't have as much time to deal with the

2047
01:19:14,370 --> 01:19:11,620
really important cases they require a

2048
01:19:15,810 --> 01:19:14,380
great deal of investigation and speaking

2049
01:19:18,060 --> 01:19:15,820
of really important cases I want to get

2050
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:18,070
back to the Rochdale case Steve which

2051
01:19:23,220 --> 01:19:20,410
happened in it was in 1995

2052
01:19:25,170 --> 01:19:23,230
yeah system of 1995 in fact we've had

2053
01:19:27,690 --> 01:19:25,180
and what was really interesting about

2054
01:19:30,660 --> 01:19:27,700
this case that he came it came to

2055
01:19:32,970 --> 01:19:30,670
inspire a newspaper article Allen

2056
01:19:35,370 --> 01:19:32,980
remembering very clearly his high

2057
01:19:37,689 --> 01:19:35,380
colonic was spooky spills scare family

2058
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:37,699
from home and

2059
01:19:42,339 --> 01:19:40,130
a little giggle at the time and it

2060
01:19:45,939 --> 01:19:42,349
showed the photograph of mr. and mrs.

2061
01:19:48,910 --> 01:19:45,949
Gardiner who were mopping their ceiling

2062
01:19:51,850 --> 01:19:48,920
and they were claiming that the spooky

2063
01:19:54,069 --> 01:19:51,860
spills of water were associated to some

2064
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:54,079
paranormal activity was going on in

2065
01:19:59,109 --> 01:19:56,690
their home at the time that we happened

2066
01:20:01,239 --> 01:19:59,119
we had a very serious drought across the

2067
01:20:04,060 --> 01:20:01,249
UK at that time we were into our fourth

2068
01:20:05,890 --> 01:20:04,070
week of no rain and in fact over here in

2069
01:20:08,399 --> 01:20:05,900
the UK we always like to have literally

2070
01:20:12,009 --> 01:20:08,409
about a couple of weeks of no rain and

2071
01:20:14,049 --> 01:20:12,019
with some Sodom and we do have problems

2072
01:20:17,109 --> 01:20:14,059
regarding water don't ask me why we just

2073
01:20:18,729 --> 01:20:17,119
do and so we were in for our fourth week

2074
01:20:21,009 --> 01:20:18,739
and we was a serious drought at that

2075
01:20:24,250 --> 01:20:21,019
time there was hosepipe pounds and we

2076
01:20:25,870 --> 01:20:24,260
had this prefabricated bungalow in

2077
01:20:28,689 --> 01:20:25,880
Rochdale where this family had lived

2078
01:20:31,660 --> 01:20:28,699
there for 14 years with an immense

2079
01:20:33,339 --> 01:20:31,670
amount of water that seems to be pumping

2080
01:20:35,410 --> 01:20:33,349
from the walls and ceilings so it

2081
01:20:38,140 --> 01:20:35,420
certainly grabbed my attention and so

2082
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:38,150
then you guys went to investigate the

2083
01:20:42,609 --> 01:20:40,610
case you know I assume that you know

2084
01:20:45,399 --> 01:20:42,619
signal to noise you get a lot of cases

2085
01:20:47,169 --> 01:20:45,409
but this was one of those signal cases

2086
01:20:49,629 --> 01:20:47,179
and maybe you can take us through the

2087
01:20:51,219 --> 01:20:49,639
the investigation and and what struck me

2088
01:20:53,140 --> 01:20:51,229
when you would talk about it we were on

2089
01:20:55,209 --> 01:20:53,150
a radio show and you were describing it

2090
01:20:57,399 --> 01:20:55,219
in the UK Steve but also when you would

2091
01:20:59,109 --> 01:20:57,409
tell it to me in person what struck me

2092
01:21:01,029 --> 01:20:59,119
the most about it was it seemed to be

2093
01:21:03,339 --> 01:21:01,039
one of those no pun intended

2094
01:21:07,449 --> 01:21:03,349
watershed cases that come along in a

2095
01:21:08,890 --> 01:21:07,459
person's life where really no pun

2096
01:21:11,229 --> 01:21:08,900
intended but you know those turning

2097
01:21:12,489 --> 01:21:11,239
points a pivotal case where for you it's

2098
01:21:14,770 --> 01:21:12,499
like you walk through the door that's

2099
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:14,780
how I describe it everything the state

2100
01:21:18,250 --> 01:21:16,130
do you talk to it everything you thought

2101
01:21:20,859 --> 01:21:18,260
you knew you now look at maybe

2102
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:20,869
differently so those are those are rare

2103
01:21:24,850 --> 01:21:22,880
cases maybe so tell us about the case

2104
01:21:26,109 --> 01:21:24,860
tell us what happened to you and and and

2105
01:21:30,279 --> 01:21:26,119
give us the story because it's an

2106
01:21:32,500 --> 01:21:30,289
amazing story I was not prepared for it

2107
01:21:34,029 --> 01:21:32,510
I mean I had been quiet

2108
01:21:35,589 --> 01:21:34,039
you know I admired that the fact that

2109
01:21:36,969 --> 01:21:35,599
I've actually learned from probably the

2110
01:21:38,529 --> 01:21:36,979
best people in the country at the time

2111
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:38,539
regarding the investigation of

2112
01:21:43,390 --> 01:21:41,090
paranormal phenomena and for psychology

2113
01:21:46,319 --> 01:21:43,400
but nothing could have prepared me for

2114
01:21:48,339 --> 01:21:46,329
when I in 1995 like to say I've been

2115
01:21:50,660 --> 01:21:48,349
investigating for quite a number of

2116
01:21:52,550 --> 01:21:50,670
years 25 years in total and

2117
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:52,560
I've never actually come across a lot

2118
01:21:55,700 --> 01:21:53,489
have been involved in suitcases

2119
01:21:59,540 --> 01:21:55,710
apologize Saxena both being closed

2120
01:22:01,129 --> 01:21:59,550
extreme but I went in there with I don't

2121
01:22:02,570 --> 01:22:01,139
know I thinking that I was going to be

2122
01:22:04,910 --> 01:22:02,580
able to rationalize this within the next

2123
01:22:06,410 --> 01:22:04,920
half an hour because if water is

2124
01:22:08,300 --> 01:22:06,420
actually coming from the ceilings or

2125
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:08,310
walls there's going to be evidence of

2126
01:22:13,669 --> 01:22:10,800
where and that water's coming from such

2127
01:22:14,180 --> 01:22:13,679
as burst pipes condensation so on and so

2128
01:22:16,100 --> 01:22:14,190
forth

2129
01:22:18,770 --> 01:22:16,110
when Akane I was quite surprised to find

2130
01:22:22,820 --> 01:22:18,780
that the council the local council had

2131
01:22:24,470 --> 01:22:22,830
been in involved in the home for at

2132
01:22:27,919 --> 01:22:24,480
least two or three months trying to find

2133
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:27,929
out exactly what was going on and they

2134
01:22:32,450 --> 01:22:30,570
fitted numerous fans in the property

2135
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:32,460
thinking they may have been condensation

2136
01:22:38,060 --> 01:22:34,050
and which he wasn't

2137
01:22:40,580 --> 01:22:38,070
they'd fitted numerous devices around to

2138
01:22:43,129 --> 01:22:40,590
monitor water and be puts up these

2139
01:22:45,290 --> 01:22:43,139
pieces of paper on the wall to write

2140
01:22:47,090 --> 01:22:45,300
down their incidents as well because

2141
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:47,100
they were actually you didn't know what

2142
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:48,810
to make of it it wasn't long before

2143
01:22:53,419 --> 01:22:51,449
someone started pointing finger and

2144
01:22:55,939 --> 01:22:53,429
saying well you know maybe the family

2145
01:22:57,890 --> 01:22:55,949
are throwing water on the walls and

2146
01:22:59,660 --> 01:22:57,900
ceilings themselves because they want to

2147
01:23:01,580 --> 01:22:59,670
be rehomed or wants a new pounds

2148
01:23:02,930 --> 01:23:01,590
obviously that always comes to mind and

2149
01:23:05,750 --> 01:23:02,940
it's not the first time that I've come

2150
01:23:07,820 --> 01:23:05,760
across an investigation of other other

2151
01:23:10,609 --> 01:23:07,830
building where it's mounted from a

2152
01:23:14,090 --> 01:23:10,619
housing association or a council and

2153
01:23:17,090 --> 01:23:14,100
that they're using the paranormal as a

2154
01:23:19,700 --> 01:23:17,100
way of being rehomed or relocated I have

2155
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:19,710
come across that before so I immediately

2156
01:23:22,970 --> 01:23:21,810
fell into this pattern of you know I'm

2157
01:23:25,070 --> 01:23:22,980
going to be able to rationalize this

2158
01:23:27,620 --> 01:23:25,080
quite quickly what we immediately found

2159
01:23:29,570 --> 01:23:27,630
was there wasn't just water forming

2160
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:29,580
which was part of our phenomena there

2161
01:23:34,550 --> 01:23:31,770
was other things taking place which is

2162
01:23:38,209 --> 01:23:34,560
objects being moved things jumping off

2163
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:38,219
the wall things working of their own

2164
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:39,810
accord it had a clock radio which is a

2165
01:23:44,660 --> 01:23:41,610
pole who was to be heard working with a

2166
01:23:47,890 --> 01:23:44,670
woman plugged in you must smells and bad

2167
01:23:50,930 --> 01:23:47,900
odors I'll of course some strange sounds

2168
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:50,940
miss limited garden reported that it had

2169
01:23:54,770 --> 01:23:52,560
coughing coming from the corner of our

2170
01:23:57,950 --> 01:23:54,780
bedroom one night doors and windows

2171
01:24:00,260 --> 01:23:57,960
would open and close and paintings and

2172
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:00,270
pictures would jump are suddenly jump

2173
01:24:04,070 --> 01:24:01,650
off the wall and catapult themselves

2174
01:24:06,980 --> 01:24:04,080
across the room this was also witness

2175
01:24:08,210 --> 01:24:06,990
what a vicar he was a friend of mrs.

2176
01:24:10,550 --> 01:24:08,220
gardiner because she was actually a

2177
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:10,560
cleaner at a local church and the vicar

2178
01:24:14,060 --> 01:24:12,570
came out and during that visit one of

2179
01:24:16,100 --> 01:24:14,070
the paintings she had the tanker

2180
01:24:18,110 --> 01:24:16,110
painting on the wall which shot off the

2181
01:24:21,130 --> 01:24:18,120
wall and threw food costs allow

2182
01:24:23,990 --> 01:24:21,140
releasable 1784 and landed on the floor

2183
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:24,000
in view of this vicar who we'd

2184
01:24:27,980 --> 01:24:26,370
interviewed as well and there he he

2185
01:24:29,870 --> 01:24:27,990
quite clearly turned around and said

2186
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:29,880
which we were quite surprised again he

2187
01:24:33,830 --> 01:24:31,770
believed it was poltergeist activity so

2188
01:24:35,450 --> 01:24:33,840
it obviously known about the subject

2189
01:24:38,090 --> 01:24:35,460
himself and after witnessing that I

2190
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:38,100
don't think he had an explanation but we

2191
01:24:42,170 --> 01:24:39,210
wanted to just mention that the

2192
01:24:44,630 --> 01:24:42,180
counselor had gone in and done the

2193
01:24:46,580 --> 01:24:44,640
appropriate check so we went up in the

2194
01:24:49,580 --> 01:24:46,590
laughter he was not only driver was very

2195
01:24:51,710 --> 01:24:49,590
dusty up there and there were nowhere no

2196
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:51,720
leaking water pipes whatsoever so what

2197
01:24:56,930 --> 01:24:53,850
we managed to do is sat down and

2198
01:24:58,580 --> 01:24:56,940
interviewed the family which were by

2199
01:25:01,460 --> 01:24:58,590
list type very distressed about the

2200
01:25:04,130 --> 01:25:01,470
whole experiences a lot of furniture and

2201
01:25:05,930 --> 01:25:04,140
carpets have been ruined and on one

2202
01:25:07,670 --> 01:25:05,940
occasion it was apparently raining in

2203
01:25:09,710 --> 01:25:07,680
the kitchen mr. Garner had surely have

2204
01:25:13,190 --> 01:25:09,720
to put it on Braille or in the kitchen

2205
01:25:14,930 --> 01:25:13,200
which is sounds ridiculous these are the

2206
01:25:16,820 --> 01:25:14,940
things that were being reported to us I

2207
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:16,830
know we think England is a wet country

2208
01:25:20,630 --> 01:25:18,930
but I'm not even that mingling do we

2209
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:20,640
believe that it rains inside your house

2210
01:25:26,780 --> 01:25:25,290
in the kitchen quite surprising we

2211
01:25:27,350 --> 01:25:26,790
didn't know what to expect today that

2212
01:25:29,090 --> 01:25:27,360
suits me

2213
01:25:30,470 --> 01:25:29,100
we were taking all these details down

2214
01:25:32,450 --> 01:25:30,480
and we thought they were very a lot of

2215
01:25:34,610 --> 01:25:32,460
very tall stories to tell you the truth

2216
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:34,620
but the good thing about this particular

2217
01:25:38,630 --> 01:25:36,690
investigation is that when we took it on

2218
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:38,640
board it was only agreement that the

2219
01:25:43,790 --> 01:25:41,280
family we couldn't have them vacated the

2220
01:25:45,620 --> 01:25:43,800
building for the evening and we would

2221
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:45,630
monitor that building so we would rule

2222
01:25:49,580 --> 01:25:47,570
out completely we allow the fact that

2223
01:25:52,370 --> 01:25:49,590
anybody was actually throwing water

2224
01:25:54,380 --> 01:25:52,380
around or them or basically hunting

2225
01:25:56,750 --> 01:25:54,390
anything so we have full control and we

2226
01:25:59,300 --> 01:25:56,760
had about five or six investigators in

2227
01:26:03,190 --> 01:25:59,310
there for a duration of about 36 hours

2228
01:26:06,530 --> 01:26:03,200
and we set up all over our equipment and

2229
01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:06,540
the very first thing that was to

2230
01:26:11,660 --> 01:26:09,120
experience was around about 11 o'clock

2231
01:26:14,540 --> 01:26:11,670
in the evening and a small statuette

2232
01:26:16,430 --> 01:26:14,550
appeared in the middle of the lounge

2233
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:16,440
now what was quite interesting we had

2234
01:26:21,260 --> 01:26:18,810
chemistry investigators had been in and

2235
01:26:22,700 --> 01:26:21,270
out of the lounge and we've got some

2236
01:26:25,610 --> 01:26:22,710
coffee and we were sat in the lounge

2237
01:26:27,590 --> 01:26:25,620
talking when one of the investigators

2238
01:26:31,010 --> 01:26:27,600
said what's that down there on the floor

2239
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:31,020
and right in the middle of bang by in

2240
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:33,120
the middle of the floor on the carpet

2241
01:26:38,420 --> 01:26:36,210
was a small statuette now we didn't

2242
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:38,430
actually know where that come from it's

2243
01:26:41,270 --> 01:26:40,050
lemon wasn't there when we walked into

2244
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:41,280
the room it would have been so obvious

2245
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:43,770
we were publishing over it we had no

2246
01:26:47,330 --> 01:26:45,690
idea we only later all in the

2247
01:26:48,980 --> 01:26:47,340
investigation when we ran back on the

2248
01:26:50,630 --> 01:26:48,990
videotapes because when we first got

2249
01:26:53,300 --> 01:26:50,640
into building we do a bigger suite to

2250
01:26:55,550 --> 01:26:53,310
see where all types of ornaments the

2251
01:26:57,560 --> 01:26:55,560
things are we actually located whether

2252
01:27:00,470 --> 01:26:57,570
ornament was early in the evening which

2253
01:27:02,090 --> 01:27:00,480
was nowhere near a should have been so

2254
01:27:04,910 --> 01:27:02,100
we don't know how a might actually got

2255
01:27:07,970 --> 01:27:04,920
there and was a bit of a mystery but as

2256
01:27:10,070 --> 01:27:07,980
the night went on we heard some unusual

2257
01:27:12,980 --> 01:27:10,080
noises and then all of a sudden we have

2258
01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:12,990
a spate of water activity and on the

2259
01:27:17,330 --> 01:27:15,600
door flame to begin with of the kitchen

2260
01:27:19,700 --> 01:27:17,340
door and then right down the door

2261
01:27:21,620 --> 01:27:19,710
beads of water came out of the actual

2262
01:27:25,130 --> 01:27:21,630
door we will stood there watching these

2263
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:25,140
beads of water appear from nowhere we

2264
01:27:29,570 --> 01:27:27,120
were quite you know we're amazed to find

2265
01:27:31,820 --> 01:27:29,580
it you know we launched it we could see

2266
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:31,830
it forming and yet we didn't know where

2267
01:27:35,570 --> 01:27:33,600
was come from and we thought maybe we

2268
01:27:38,750 --> 01:27:35,580
were talking about some really profound

2269
01:27:40,250 --> 01:27:38,760
natural phenomena here you know maybe it

2270
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:40,260
was some form of rational explanation

2271
01:27:45,170 --> 01:27:43,170
but that was ruled out when we the main

2272
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:45,180
incident happened in the hallway about

2273
01:27:51,290 --> 01:27:48,210
half-past five in the morning when we

2274
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:51,300
saw water a phenomena explain to you how

2275
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:53,370
I've seen it and basically there was

2276
01:27:57,650 --> 01:27:55,290
water flowing across the ceiling

2277
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:57,660
it was defying gravity as it flowed

2278
01:28:02,300 --> 01:27:59,280
across the ceiling he didn't trip to the

2279
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:02,310
ground he arched itself around the light

2280
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:04,890
fittings on the ceiling and then stopped

2281
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:06,960
itself so I had movement and if as he

2282
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:08,970
floated it was it was strange it was

2283
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:11,370
right he's spinning a cup of water on

2284
01:28:15,710 --> 01:28:13,290
the floor in the kitchen you see move

2285
01:28:17,870 --> 01:28:15,720
along the floor it was the same effect

2286
01:28:19,580 --> 01:28:17,880
on the ceiling but it was kind of

2287
01:28:21,050 --> 01:28:19,590
defying gravity in a sense of speaking

2288
01:28:22,910 --> 01:28:21,060
he was just he was just absolutely

2289
01:28:24,530 --> 01:28:22,920
gobsmacked real quickly what was the

2290
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:24,540
best incident we quickly went up in the

2291
01:28:28,169 --> 01:28:26,050
lofty lot surrounded we lost

2292
01:28:30,149 --> 01:28:28,179
in fact it was bone dry on the opposite

2293
01:28:32,220 --> 01:28:30,159
side surface of the ceiling the water

2294
01:28:34,799 --> 01:28:32,230
was clearly there we took samples of

2295
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:34,809
that water but for a later analysis and

2296
01:28:39,810 --> 01:28:37,690
then it would mysteriously disappear

2297
01:28:42,030 --> 01:28:39,820
within minutes and then appear in other

2298
01:28:45,060 --> 01:28:42,040
places is this something that you can

2299
01:28:47,609 --> 01:28:45,070
actually stop and take a collection of

2300
01:28:49,470 --> 01:28:47,619
this water to see what it was yeah yeah

2301
01:28:51,180 --> 01:28:49,480
I mean we will look it up yet some yeah

2302
01:28:52,709 --> 01:28:51,190
lots of sample bottles levels we

2303
01:28:55,620 --> 01:28:52,719
actually scraped across the student got

2304
01:28:57,450 --> 01:28:55,630
water in it now that was great for us

2305
01:28:59,310 --> 01:28:57,460
because before okay we can have that

2306
01:29:01,649 --> 01:28:59,320
analyzed by a laboratory that's on stage

2307
01:29:03,629 --> 01:29:01,659
but what we needed also was a controlled

2308
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:03,639
form so what we did is we went to the

2309
01:29:08,879 --> 01:29:05,730
kitchen and there sorry the bathroom tap

2310
01:29:11,069 --> 01:29:08,889
turning on and put some normal tap water

2311
01:29:12,930 --> 01:29:11,079
in the other sample that we had

2312
01:29:15,390 --> 01:29:12,940
so it had a control sample of tap water

2313
01:29:17,669 --> 01:29:15,400
and then this unusual water will just

2314
01:29:19,290 --> 01:29:17,679
seemed to be on the ceiling and this

2315
01:29:20,879 --> 01:29:19,300
pattern of events kind of went on all

2316
01:29:22,530 --> 01:29:20,889
night you know where where it

2317
01:29:25,290 --> 01:29:22,540
disappeared and reappearing all the

2318
01:29:26,879 --> 01:29:25,300
places I remember was splitting up and I

2319
01:29:28,859 --> 01:29:26,889
headed off into the back bedroom with

2320
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:28,869
two other investigators now this was a

2321
01:29:35,729 --> 01:29:31,449
location where mrs. Gardiner's last

2322
01:29:38,580 --> 01:29:35,739
husband had passed away he had an asthma

2323
01:29:40,770 --> 01:29:38,590
problem and had died and he had

2324
01:29:43,350 --> 01:29:40,780
collapsed and he was in having quite a

2325
01:29:45,330 --> 01:29:43,360
lot and we decided that we would spend

2326
01:29:47,609 --> 01:29:45,340
some quiet time sat on the end of the

2327
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:47,619
bed in the bedroom along with a couple

2328
01:29:54,149 --> 01:29:51,280
of other investigators and we all were

2329
01:29:56,660 --> 01:29:54,159
sitting there we all heard like a bee

2330
01:29:58,560 --> 01:29:56,670
bless somebody trying to breathe and

2331
01:30:00,750 --> 01:29:58,570
struggling for breath in a sense of

2332
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:00,760
speaking from the angles and just at

2333
01:30:04,950 --> 01:30:02,770
that point we looked at each other and

2334
01:30:06,959 --> 01:30:04,960
we could clearly say that you know we

2335
01:30:08,819 --> 01:30:06,969
were all hearing this and just because I

2336
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:08,829
was about to turn around I got the front

2337
01:30:13,500 --> 01:30:11,050
in the back well he was a very unusual

2338
01:30:15,899 --> 01:30:13,510
experience because when people ask me

2339
01:30:17,879 --> 01:30:15,909
how that actually felt it felt like it

2340
01:30:20,879 --> 01:30:17,889
was a thump and a little extra shock at

2341
01:30:22,290 --> 01:30:20,889
the same time it did slightly threw me

2342
01:30:24,870 --> 01:30:22,300
off the bed to toe the cheese into the

2343
01:30:26,430 --> 01:30:24,880
into the small chasing table now I don't

2344
01:30:28,410 --> 01:30:26,440
know if that was part of the action or

2345
01:30:31,589 --> 01:30:28,420
part of shock to tell you the truth you

2346
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:31,599
know but I found myself not knowing how

2347
01:30:44,620 --> 01:30:41,980
[Music]

2348
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:44,630
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2363
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2364
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2366
01:31:27,580 --> 01:31:22,910
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2367
01:31:29,740 --> 01:31:27,590
online this is Leslie Cain and I'm with

2368
01:31:31,510 --> 01:31:29,750
the Coalition for freedom of information

2369
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:31,520
and you are listening to the podcast

2370
01:31:38,020 --> 01:31:34,010
with Jean Steinberg and David beard

2371
01:31:40,660 --> 01:31:38,030
named Steve Mira Dave Sadler joining us

2372
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:40,670
paranormal investigators from the UK our

2373
01:31:47,290 --> 01:31:43,250
guest host is Paul Kimball and while

2374
01:31:52,120 --> 01:31:47,300
being regaled with spiritual water also

2375
01:31:53,770 --> 01:31:52,130
yeah I couldn't explain how I felt at

2376
01:31:55,510 --> 01:31:53,780
that time with being here I've always

2377
01:31:57,550 --> 01:31:55,520
been sort of paranormal phenomena

2378
01:31:59,830 --> 01:31:57,560
doesn't harm people it's the same thing

2379
01:32:01,540 --> 01:31:59,840
I tell people in fact you know when I

2380
01:32:03,370 --> 01:32:01,550
try and get people to calm down I said

2381
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:03,380
look you know paranormal flora you know

2382
01:32:06,820 --> 01:32:05,570
barely you know these are people every

2383
01:32:09,490 --> 01:32:06,830
reported injuries and things like that

2384
01:32:11,530 --> 01:32:09,500
it tends to be something even more would

2385
01:32:15,310 --> 01:32:11,540
scare you as opposed to in junior but

2386
01:32:18,220 --> 01:32:15,320
then I was in the exact situation where

2387
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:18,230
something had hit me in the back now you

2388
01:32:21,100 --> 01:32:19,610
know didn't take me long to rush out

2389
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:21,110
about moving into the lounge and it's a

2390
01:32:25,420 --> 01:32:23,570
lie and the investigators rushed around

2391
01:32:27,490 --> 01:32:25,430
me and were more of interested and so

2392
01:32:29,290 --> 01:32:27,500
photographing the back and the bruise I

2393
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:29,300
was slowly appearing which is about four

2394
01:32:33,910 --> 01:32:32,210
inches I'm taking photographs of that as

2395
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:33,920
opposed to asking exactly what was going

2396
01:32:38,980 --> 01:32:37,010
on at that point at that point I left

2397
01:32:41,020 --> 01:32:38,990
the building and went outside and sat on

2398
01:32:44,230 --> 01:32:41,030
the wall out on the front and at that

2399
01:32:46,780 --> 01:32:44,240
point I was considering should I take a

2400
01:32:49,150 --> 01:32:46,790
different path should I not get involved

2401
01:32:50,440 --> 01:32:49,160
in the paranormal since this is

2402
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:50,450
something I wasn't trained to deal with

2403
01:32:55,159 --> 01:32:52,730
it wasn't something I knew how to have

2404
01:32:57,770 --> 01:32:55,169
to do is I just didn't know that

2405
01:32:59,569 --> 01:32:57,780
and I had no pattern of investigation

2406
01:33:02,060 --> 01:32:59,579
for it I'd have experienced it myself

2407
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:02,070
without my feel good well good wild

2408
01:33:05,029 --> 01:33:03,570
looks when it is just you know thinking

2409
01:33:07,189 --> 01:33:05,039
shouldn't bother or should we go well

2410
01:33:09,949 --> 01:33:07,199
you know he's and then I thought to

2411
01:33:11,899 --> 01:33:09,959
myself no you know he's you know I want

2412
01:33:13,549 --> 01:33:11,909
to try and find out what's been going on

2413
01:33:15,799 --> 01:33:13,559
what why should this sort of thing

2414
01:33:19,339 --> 01:33:15,809
happen but I've never had an explanation

2415
01:33:21,529 --> 01:33:19,349
as to why I had that sensation why I got

2416
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:21,539
hit on the back do silly some physical

2417
01:33:25,310 --> 01:33:23,130
evidence because I had a bruise I had a

2418
01:33:26,750 --> 01:33:25,320
mark which was photographed and you know

2419
01:33:28,969 --> 01:33:26,760
people can see that that's enough on our

2420
01:33:31,279 --> 01:33:28,979
website that to me was a very very

2421
01:33:33,049 --> 01:33:31,289
unusual experience and it certainly made

2422
01:33:34,699 --> 01:33:33,059
me start to believe that there's

2423
01:33:35,989 --> 01:33:34,709
definitely something for more to the

2424
01:33:39,429 --> 01:33:35,999
power no more than what I initially

2425
01:33:42,229 --> 01:33:39,439
thought the results of the water

2426
01:33:45,259 --> 01:33:42,239
analysis that you guys had run between

2427
01:33:47,870 --> 01:33:45,269
the the roof water is we'll call it and

2428
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:47,880
the the tap water well that was

2429
01:33:53,870 --> 01:33:50,130
absolutely fascinating because what

2430
01:33:57,620 --> 01:33:53,880
happened was a whole organization we

2431
01:33:59,989 --> 01:33:57,630
went over drive we submitted the water

2432
01:34:02,089 --> 01:33:59,999
sample to Northwest water laboratories

2433
01:34:03,949 --> 01:34:02,099
and they ran some analysis on the two

2434
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:03,959
samples that we had the control sample

2435
01:34:09,069 --> 01:34:06,570
which was tap water and the unusual

2436
01:34:11,209 --> 01:34:09,079
water was appearing on the ceiling and

2437
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:11,219
very distantly could tell the difference

2438
01:34:16,850 --> 01:34:14,130
on our on analysis the water he was on

2439
01:34:18,469 --> 01:34:16,860
the ceiling was not tap water now you

2440
01:34:20,569 --> 01:34:18,479
have to question where else was water

2441
01:34:22,909 --> 01:34:20,579
coming from how else would water sibley

2442
01:34:25,159 --> 01:34:22,919
appear in a house on a ceiling or on a

2443
01:34:27,109 --> 01:34:25,169
wall or on a door if it doesn't come

2444
01:34:29,540 --> 01:34:27,119
from the source of main of water into

2445
01:34:31,069 --> 01:34:29,550
lab buildings such as it's hot water it

2446
01:34:33,109 --> 01:34:31,079
wasn't at water now and the most

2447
01:34:35,239 --> 01:34:33,119
significant finding that they had was

2448
01:34:38,419 --> 01:34:35,249
they measured the electrical

2449
01:34:40,639 --> 01:34:38,429
conductivity of the water now normal tap

2450
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:40,649
water as they as they explained

2451
01:34:44,989 --> 01:34:43,050
Northwest water laboratories have an

2452
01:34:47,239 --> 01:34:44,999
electrical conductivity so when we pour

2453
01:34:48,620 --> 01:34:47,249
water out of our taps into our glasses

2454
01:34:50,750 --> 01:34:48,630
there's a certain amount electrical

2455
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:50,760
conductivity in that through the water

2456
01:34:55,699 --> 01:34:53,010
molecules moving across pipes generates

2457
01:34:57,949 --> 01:34:55,709
us in them our lectures today now they

2458
01:35:03,500 --> 01:34:57,959
believe that the normal tap waters are

2459
01:35:06,919 --> 01:35:03,510
very low is round about 900 or 800 800

2460
01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:06,929
you CSM's the phenomena was that the

2461
01:35:10,740 --> 01:35:08,170
actual ceiling

2462
01:35:13,230 --> 01:35:10,750
water that we managed to capture was off

2463
01:35:16,830 --> 01:35:13,240
the charts the illogical conductivity of

2464
01:35:19,380 --> 01:35:16,840
the water was in the thousands of UCS ms

2465
01:35:21,510 --> 01:35:19,390
we couldn't explain that you couldn't

2466
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:21,520
explain how that water on the ceiling

2467
01:35:25,590 --> 01:35:24,010
can be that electrically charged now if

2468
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:25,600
we are dealing with poltergeist

2469
01:35:30,060 --> 01:35:27,370
phenomena and the ability that they have

2470
01:35:32,070 --> 01:35:30,070
of creating forming different types of

2471
01:35:34,290 --> 01:35:32,080
liquid then maybe somehow it's

2472
01:35:36,570 --> 01:35:34,300
electrically driven we don't really know

2473
01:35:38,820 --> 01:35:36,580
but once we got the information I went

2474
01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:38,830
public with it the amount of people that

2475
01:35:42,660 --> 01:35:41,170
contacted us from the worldwide for

2476
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:42,670
months and months and months we were

2477
01:35:48,300 --> 01:35:45,370
just every single day from Mexico from

2478
01:35:49,860 --> 01:35:48,310
from China for every every single

2479
01:35:51,630 --> 01:35:49,870
country you can well imagine what

2480
01:35:53,970 --> 01:35:51,640
concepts it was regarding the details

2481
01:35:57,420 --> 01:35:53,980
and the data that we'd found regarding

2482
01:35:59,190 --> 01:35:57,430
this this manifestation of water because

2483
01:36:01,260 --> 01:35:59,200
I don't believe that people have really

2484
01:36:03,180 --> 01:36:01,270
had the opportunity of actually being

2485
01:36:04,740 --> 01:36:03,190
there and being able to take a sample I

2486
01:36:06,690 --> 01:36:04,750
know that if you actually read

2487
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:06,700
poltergeist phenomenon the information

2488
01:36:10,620 --> 01:36:09,130
is around especially on the Internet

2489
01:36:12,780 --> 01:36:10,630
you'll come across the odd case where

2490
01:36:15,030 --> 01:36:12,790
people have said yes and some type of

2491
01:36:17,130 --> 01:36:15,040
blood was found or some type of water or

2492
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:17,140
oil or plasma all sorts of little things

2493
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:18,970
have been found in association with

2494
01:36:23,490 --> 01:36:20,650
poltergeists and I but never actually

2495
01:36:25,110 --> 01:36:23,500
been captured and analyzed so we were

2496
01:36:26,820 --> 01:36:25,120
very locate just about it being in the

2497
01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:26,830
right place at the right time and we

2498
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:28,450
don't have an explanation for it and all

2499
01:36:31,230 --> 01:36:30,010
first water laboratories don't have an

2500
01:36:33,390 --> 01:36:31,240
explanation for it

2501
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:33,400
and it was completely profound we

2502
01:36:37,200 --> 01:36:34,810
haven't got a clue actually what

2503
01:36:39,150 --> 01:36:37,210
happened to this day we eventually ended

2504
01:36:40,860 --> 01:36:39,160
up having to sit down with the council

2505
01:36:42,930 --> 01:36:40,870
and have the family relocated they

2506
01:36:45,060 --> 01:36:42,940
didn't want to move home but we've had

2507
01:36:46,650 --> 01:36:45,070
to have them gain some peace because

2508
01:36:48,090 --> 01:36:46,660
these incidents were just going on and

2509
01:36:49,950 --> 01:36:48,100
on and they become granny mess from

2510
01:36:52,380 --> 01:36:49,960
there so eventually the family where we

2511
01:36:54,660 --> 01:36:52,390
located and the building was left empty

2512
01:36:57,600 --> 01:36:54,670
for quite some time speaking of giving

2513
01:37:00,000 --> 01:36:57,610
samples and you know I could talk about

2514
01:37:03,630 --> 01:37:00,010
the the Rossdale case for four hours

2515
01:37:05,910 --> 01:37:03,640
just an amazing case but when we were

2516
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:05,920
there with ghost cases one of the places

2517
01:37:09,480 --> 01:37:07,930
we visited and Steve you mentioned blood

2518
01:37:12,510 --> 01:37:09,490
maybe I'll throw this one over to Dave

2519
01:37:15,510 --> 01:37:12,520
was the white heart hotel in new toxsa

2520
01:37:17,490 --> 01:37:15,520
right while we were there which was

2521
01:37:19,020 --> 01:37:17,500
supposedly haunted members of your

2522
01:37:22,529 --> 01:37:19,030
investigative team

2523
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:22,539
found what looked to be blood splatter

2524
01:37:27,330 --> 01:37:25,360
on a shower curtain in was it the demon

2525
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:27,340
room there were a number of their notes

2526
01:37:33,390 --> 01:37:30,610
it was a it was a room which allegedly

2527
01:37:34,799 --> 01:37:33,400
on some form of paranormal activity

2528
01:37:38,189 --> 01:37:34,809
reported now there the thing with the

2529
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:38,199
cases call originally we had twenty one

2530
01:37:44,489 --> 01:37:41,170
reported incidents of alleged paranormal

2531
01:37:48,120 --> 01:37:44,499
like activity in the location I think we

2532
01:37:51,779 --> 01:37:48,130
were able to do away with Steve twenty

2533
01:37:53,939 --> 01:37:51,789
of them yes well a lot of them I think

2534
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:53,949
that most of the reports we were we were

2535
01:37:58,709 --> 01:37:55,690
able to explain we were to do away with

2536
01:38:01,500 --> 01:37:58,719
given yeah II am asking and this

2537
01:38:03,540 --> 01:38:01,510
different aspects of physiology again

2538
01:38:05,250 --> 01:38:03,550
such like a thought experiment

2539
01:38:07,979 --> 01:38:05,260
particularly were monitoring because

2540
01:38:10,379 --> 01:38:07,989
apparently bloodstains were alleged to

2541
01:38:13,049 --> 01:38:10,389
appear on the shower curtain in the

2542
01:38:15,239 --> 01:38:13,059
bathroom and obviously that's why we

2543
01:38:16,979 --> 01:38:15,249
were monitoring it it's one of them does

2544
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:16,989
it doesn't it I didn't think it did but

2545
01:38:20,489 --> 01:38:19,210
will monitor anyway I was not a case

2546
01:38:22,739 --> 01:38:20,499
manager so I didn't get a choice that

2547
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:22,749
luckily the case manager decided yes she

2548
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:25,570
did want to monitor that really not nice

2549
01:38:31,799 --> 01:38:29,170
and there are points bloodstains or red

2550
01:38:33,209 --> 01:38:31,809
specks were found on the colonel

2551
01:38:34,950 --> 01:38:33,219
so Dave I was just sort of sailor I

2552
01:38:36,839 --> 01:38:34,960
think we dig actually managed to confirm

2553
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:36,849
about the actual stains word blood well

2554
01:38:40,890 --> 01:38:38,800
as eventually yeah we we did say the

2555
01:38:42,270 --> 01:38:40,900
shelter in the way we did say another

2556
01:38:45,450 --> 01:38:42,280
shall occur in the way winners as well

2557
01:38:47,580 --> 01:38:45,460
to see if it was anything fungal we've

2558
01:38:49,020 --> 01:38:47,590
done some CSI work on the show okay and

2559
01:38:50,879 --> 01:38:49,030
I think we were able to ascertain that

2560
01:38:52,529 --> 01:38:50,889
it was some form of blood we're not able

2561
01:38:54,779 --> 01:38:52,539
to have this moment suggestive it's

2562
01:38:56,339 --> 01:38:54,789
human blood or if it's a form of animal

2563
01:38:58,680 --> 01:38:56,349
blood or anything else but we were able

2564
01:39:00,270 --> 01:38:58,690
what we were able to do was close off

2565
01:39:02,580 --> 01:39:00,280
the area we were able to take the shower

2566
01:39:04,620 --> 01:39:02,590
care and away we checked absolutely

2567
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:04,630
everything that we could within the room

2568
01:39:07,410 --> 01:39:06,010
to see was anything that could have

2569
01:39:09,930 --> 01:39:07,420
caused this effect that it could have

2570
01:39:11,879 --> 01:39:09,940
come I don't know we even look to see

2571
01:39:13,350 --> 01:39:11,889
the bird and struck the window and blood

2572
01:39:16,259 --> 01:39:13,360
for the bird had splattered and through

2573
01:39:17,430 --> 01:39:16,269
the fan through the fire but we don't

2574
01:39:19,709 --> 01:39:17,440
absolutely everything we could we

2575
01:39:21,719 --> 01:39:19,719
possibly could to see what had caused

2576
01:39:24,149 --> 01:39:21,729
this i man to be honest the only thing

2577
01:39:25,950 --> 01:39:24,159
that we could possibly come up with that

2578
01:39:28,350 --> 01:39:25,960
I were it was done purposefully by

2579
01:39:30,780 --> 01:39:28,360
somebody still to this point we there's

2580
01:39:33,060 --> 01:39:30,790
only three people that we couldn't

2581
01:39:35,580 --> 01:39:33,070
or during that period of time when the

2582
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:35,590
room was left a tampon alone and that

2583
01:39:41,460 --> 01:39:38,290
was mr. Kimble it was myself and it was

2584
01:39:44,340 --> 01:39:41,470
the manager of the hotel who as I say we

2585
01:39:45,690 --> 01:39:44,350
couldn't this is why we can't save her

2586
01:39:48,090 --> 01:39:45,700
said for definitely there was anything

2587
01:39:49,650 --> 01:39:48,100
paranormal or not we don't think it was

2588
01:39:52,170 --> 01:39:49,660
there a start of the investigation

2589
01:39:54,390 --> 01:39:52,180
it definitely appeared during the

2590
01:39:56,610 --> 01:39:54,400
investigation because it has found what

2591
01:40:07,550 --> 01:39:56,620
three people were alone in the building

2592
01:40:12,650 --> 01:40:10,590
I think we could go as far as to say

2593
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:12,660
that we done some CSI work on it and

2594
01:40:18,030 --> 01:40:15,610
lock down a location and and looked at

2595
01:40:19,590 --> 01:40:18,040
the shower cone in depth as I said it's

2596
01:40:22,530 --> 01:40:19,600
a different type of funguses that may

2597
01:40:24,660 --> 01:40:22,540
appear rad that may grow in moist

2598
01:40:26,400 --> 01:40:24,670
conditions on shellcodes in the UK and

2599
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:26,410
we've done some tests with an obese

2600
01:40:30,210 --> 01:40:28,570
child parent as well and at this moment

2601
01:40:32,310 --> 01:40:30,220
I think we definitely have obtained that

2602
01:40:34,650 --> 01:40:32,320
it was some form of blood it was a weird

2603
01:40:36,480 --> 01:40:34,660
case because again you can

2604
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:36,490
compartmentalize everything that

2605
01:40:39,810 --> 01:40:38,890
happened that night and I know whenever

2606
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:39,820
you deal with something like this

2607
01:40:43,110 --> 01:40:41,650
there's always the possibility that it's

2608
01:40:45,900 --> 01:40:43,120
a hoax that somebody's putting one over

2609
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:45,910
on you so as you said you've narrowed it

2610
01:40:50,550 --> 01:40:47,530
down to it's either something genuinely

2611
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:50,560
weird or one of three people and I can

2612
01:40:55,200 --> 01:40:53,290
guarantee it wasn't me and I'm guarantee

2613
01:40:58,600 --> 01:40:55,210
welcome a so we know who the one

2614
01:41:04,389 --> 01:41:00,959
[Music]

2615
01:41:06,939 --> 01:41:04,399
for 58 years fate has provided true

2616
01:41:09,310 --> 01:41:06,949
reports of the strange and unknown fate

2617
01:41:11,169 --> 01:41:09,320
brings you the latest in all aspects of

2618
01:41:14,739 --> 01:41:11,179
the paranormal like angels and miracles

2619
01:41:17,169 --> 01:41:14,749
psychic phenomena ghosts UFOs and much

2620
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:17,179
much more to receive your complimentary

2621
01:41:23,620 --> 01:41:20,090
fate magazine call now at one eight

2622
01:41:33,330 --> 01:41:23,630
hundred seven two eight two seven three

2623
01:41:33,340 --> 01:41:43,510
www.wku.edu/oucampus

2624
01:41:55,590 --> 01:41:49,920
[Music]

2625
01:41:58,959 --> 01:41:55,600
[Applause]

2626
01:42:02,140 --> 01:41:58,969
Dave Sadler and stephen maryk joining us

2627
01:42:04,270 --> 01:42:02,150
UK paranormal investigators associated

2628
01:42:06,700 --> 01:42:04,280
with the unknown phenomena investigation

2629
01:42:09,220 --> 01:42:06,710
association now this particular instance

2630
01:42:11,470 --> 01:42:09,230
is as weird as it gets for you are there

2631
01:42:13,209 --> 01:42:11,480
other cases that maybe are even stranger

2632
01:42:16,180 --> 01:42:13,219
we don't have much time left but maybe

2633
01:42:18,670 --> 01:42:16,190
we can cover a few yeah I'd be involved

2634
01:42:20,830 --> 01:42:18,680
I mean the planning blood or the shower

2635
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:20,840
curtain yeah I could understand but we

2636
01:42:23,979 --> 01:42:22,010
have full control over the environment

2637
01:42:26,470 --> 01:42:23,989
and we don't have all the people in

2638
01:42:27,970 --> 01:42:26,480
there and certain things happen like

2639
01:42:29,290 --> 01:42:27,980
we've had a rough start then yeah we

2640
01:42:31,330 --> 01:42:29,300
could certainly will allow a lot of

2641
01:42:32,860 --> 01:42:31,340
things such as hopes and fates I mean

2642
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:32,870
the other politic guys related case I

2643
01:42:37,090 --> 01:42:34,610
was involved with was a placement

2644
01:42:39,370 --> 01:42:37,100
stockport he emerging where family were

2645
01:42:41,439 --> 01:42:39,380
being played by poltergeist had 72 twin

2646
01:42:42,100 --> 01:42:41,449
girls one of them has been pushed down

2647
01:42:44,380 --> 01:42:42,110
the stairs

2648
01:42:45,939 --> 01:42:44,390
but she felt hands on the back of her

2649
01:42:48,820 --> 01:42:45,949
pushed her down the stairs she ended up

2650
01:42:50,530 --> 01:42:48,830
breaking her ankle and the radio would

2651
01:42:52,540 --> 01:42:50,540
switch itself on the girls were being

2652
01:42:55,780 --> 01:42:52,550
touched on the hands and on the behinds

2653
01:42:58,000 --> 01:42:55,790
and on one particular occasion the

2654
01:43:00,790 --> 01:42:58,010
lounge door slam so hard that he put a

2655
01:43:03,370 --> 01:43:00,800
22 I measured it just over 26 inches

2656
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:03,380
cracked down the center of the door he

2657
01:43:07,540 --> 01:43:05,330
was bellowed in a sense of speaking it

2658
01:43:09,550 --> 01:43:07,550
being slammed by hard now I couldn't do

2659
01:43:11,830 --> 01:43:09,560
that you know I don't think I've got

2660
01:43:14,290 --> 01:43:11,840
physically slamming down hard enough to

2661
01:43:16,540 --> 01:43:14,300
crack a solid wood door down the center

2662
01:43:18,729 --> 01:43:16,550
of it light balls would pop out of the

2663
01:43:20,590 --> 01:43:18,739
holders of fly across the room they had

2664
01:43:22,390 --> 01:43:20,600
a pad dog which was always being

2665
01:43:24,670 --> 01:43:22,400
tormented for some news and the doorbell

2666
01:43:26,740 --> 01:43:24,680
would ring on one particular occasion as

2667
01:43:28,689 --> 01:43:26,750
things got worse the family ended or

2668
01:43:31,150 --> 01:43:28,699
barricaded themselves in their bedroom

2669
01:43:32,979 --> 01:43:31,160
with their mother at seven o'clock in

2670
01:43:34,630 --> 01:43:32,989
the evening every night because they

2671
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:34,640
knew when darkness fell things always

2672
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:36,320
got worse and whilst we were on the

2673
01:43:40,150 --> 01:43:37,730
investigation things were definitely

2674
01:43:41,890 --> 01:43:40,160
getting worse and the girls ended up

2675
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:41,900
waking up with scratch marks on the legs

2676
01:43:45,939 --> 01:43:44,570
on this one particular incident one

2677
01:43:47,260 --> 01:43:45,949
particular and I ended up with a phone

2678
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:47,270
call around about the early hours of

2679
01:43:50,979 --> 01:43:48,770
morning 3:15 in the morning or something

2680
01:43:52,959 --> 01:43:50,989
the mother's screaming and crying down

2681
01:43:54,490 --> 01:43:52,969
the phone for us to get there as soon as

2682
01:43:56,560 --> 01:43:54,500
we possibly could ended up game that's

2683
01:43:58,870 --> 01:43:56,570
about 4 o'clock in the morning they

2684
01:44:00,970 --> 01:43:58,880
hanging out handing out the bedroom

2685
01:44:02,740 --> 01:44:00,980
window is trying to constant combat open

2686
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:02,750
the front door it's only got 15 minutes

2687
01:44:06,069 --> 01:44:04,610
to get them to come and open the front

2688
01:44:08,410 --> 01:44:06,079
door because they were that scared

2689
01:44:10,750 --> 01:44:08,420
of coming out their bedroom anyway

2690
01:44:12,280 --> 01:44:10,760
eventually we did sell and I'm on their

2691
01:44:14,109 --> 01:44:12,290
way down every single way in the house

2692
01:44:15,490 --> 01:44:14,119
was finished planning the process and

2693
01:44:17,109 --> 01:44:15,500
the managed to get himself from the

2694
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:17,119
front door and or what tried to ask them

2695
01:44:21,490 --> 01:44:18,530
what happened but the mullet was flung

2696
01:44:22,990 --> 01:44:21,500
around around the room crane and she was

2697
01:44:25,510 --> 01:44:23,000
a hell of a state what happened was a

2698
01:44:27,220 --> 01:44:25,520
apparently that evening the doc was

2699
01:44:29,979 --> 01:44:27,230
crying downstairs so they let the dog

2700
01:44:31,540 --> 01:44:29,989
off but the dog didn't want to go up in

2701
01:44:33,490 --> 01:44:31,550
fact he did the dark the dog which was

2702
01:44:35,830 --> 01:44:33,500
of small Scottish wonderful white area

2703
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:35,840
would become vicious to the poem by your

2704
01:44:38,350 --> 01:44:36,770
hand

2705
01:44:40,120 --> 01:44:38,360
it was never known to be a vicious dog

2706
01:44:42,250 --> 01:44:40,130
but just did not want to go in their

2707
01:44:44,439 --> 01:44:42,260
bedroom upstairs so the one that decided

2708
01:44:46,299 --> 01:44:44,449
to let the dog go back downstairs now

2709
01:44:47,740 --> 01:44:46,309
she entered gone down the staircase she

2710
01:44:49,450 --> 01:44:47,750
got to the lounge door and realized that

2711
01:44:50,229 --> 01:44:49,460
the driver's door was open when she left

2712
01:44:52,780 --> 01:44:50,239
he closed

2713
01:44:54,549 --> 01:44:52,790
she needs to in turn the actual light

2714
01:44:56,530 --> 01:44:54,559
switch on at that point the light bulb

2715
01:44:57,910 --> 01:44:56,540
jumped out a hick went flying across the

2716
01:45:00,850 --> 01:44:57,920
room she panicked she dropped the dog

2717
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:00,860
and she ran upstairs and joined that

2718
01:45:05,109 --> 01:45:03,530
night I was around about one o'clock in

2719
01:45:07,089 --> 01:45:05,119
the morning two o'clock in the morning I

2720
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:07,099
think that it was a necessity for the

2721
01:45:10,270 --> 01:45:08,719
girls to have to go to the bathroom so

2722
01:45:12,250 --> 01:45:10,280
they decided to go along with them

2723
01:45:14,620 --> 01:45:12,260
although and all had to the bathroom

2724
01:45:16,959 --> 01:45:14,630
together at that point this is an into a

2725
01:45:19,030 --> 01:45:16,969
place they heard this thumping sound and

2726
01:45:21,819 --> 01:45:19,040
they looked down the staircase and they

2727
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:21,829
saw an apparition of a Lisa six of seven

2728
01:45:28,089 --> 01:45:25,010
foot apparition in a dark shape with no

2729
01:45:29,709 --> 01:45:28,099
extremities no fingers no no lay and it

2730
01:45:31,419 --> 01:45:29,719
had legs but it didn't have feet and it

2731
01:45:32,979 --> 01:45:31,429
didn't have hands as it Ward's off the

2732
01:45:35,049 --> 01:45:32,989
stairs it stamped its way up the

2733
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:35,059
staircase well I don't know how they

2734
01:45:38,530 --> 01:45:36,530
managed to listing ran bats a lot from

2735
01:45:40,089 --> 01:45:38,540
bedroom and the Baloch ADA themselves

2736
01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:40,099
and it moved a double bed and a wardrobe

2737
01:45:44,589 --> 01:45:43,130
and a table and I tried to move that

2738
01:45:47,020 --> 01:45:44,599
wardrobe and I couldn't move it and I'm

2739
01:45:48,819 --> 01:45:47,030
a big guy but they managed to fling this

2740
01:45:49,770 --> 01:45:48,829
off against and barricade themselves in

2741
01:45:52,419 --> 01:45:49,780
on this door

2742
01:45:53,799 --> 01:45:52,429
within seconds thinking that this thing

2743
01:45:55,030 --> 01:45:53,809
was going to bust through the through

2744
01:45:56,709 --> 01:45:55,040
the bedroom door and it was at that

2745
01:45:58,209 --> 01:45:56,719
point I got this phone call

2746
01:46:00,280 --> 01:45:58,219
the unfortunate thing is is that seems

2747
01:46:02,020 --> 01:46:00,290
did escalate to the point where the gas

2748
01:46:04,060 --> 01:46:02,030
was being switched on on the gas fire

2749
01:46:06,459 --> 01:46:04,070
and on the cooking we ended up having to

2750
01:46:08,709 --> 01:46:06,469
port carpet tape on the cooker knobs on

2751
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:08,719
the gas fire because the gas kept being

2752
01:46:11,919 --> 01:46:10,010
switched on this was getting very

2753
01:46:14,020 --> 01:46:11,929
dangerous we thought about having the

2754
01:46:15,939 --> 01:46:14,030
family relocated for a short length of

2755
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:15,949
time we ended up having to turn to the

2756
01:46:18,660 --> 01:46:17,050
church

2757
01:46:21,030 --> 01:46:18,670
excellent job they did now I've never

2758
01:46:22,950 --> 01:46:21,040
been a big believer in in the church and

2759
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:22,960
their capabilities of helping

2760
01:46:26,490 --> 01:46:25,090
individuals and blessings I think

2761
01:46:28,530 --> 01:46:26,500
Bologna and one about twelve percent of

2762
01:46:30,480 --> 01:46:28,540
them attend to be successful but

2763
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:30,490
wherever they did and they came in and

2764
01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:32,290
they did their thing their blessing or

2765
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:33,970
whatever it was whilst investigators

2766
01:46:38,250 --> 01:46:36,370
there whatever happened seemed to work

2767
01:46:40,170 --> 01:46:38,260
because since that they do not have a

2768
01:46:42,570 --> 01:46:40,180
single episode ever take place and that

2769
01:46:44,550 --> 01:46:42,580
is just profound in itself the family

2770
01:46:46,410 --> 01:46:44,560
are quite happy we see Christmas cards

2771
01:46:48,390 --> 01:46:46,420
every year often do big dedicated

2772
01:46:52,200 --> 01:46:48,400
allowed to thanking me really in a sense

2773
01:46:54,600 --> 01:46:52,210
for you know disappeared around and

2774
01:46:56,640 --> 01:46:54,610
again was a very very scary profound

2775
01:47:00,090 --> 01:46:56,650
phenomena so you've been involved Steve

2776
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:00,100
with two poltergeist case that yep you

2777
01:47:04,890 --> 01:47:02,650
know not only scary but potentially

2778
01:47:07,110 --> 01:47:04,900
quite dangerous which indicates it may

2779
01:47:09,690 --> 01:47:07,120
be you know there's a dark side if you

2780
01:47:12,330 --> 01:47:09,700
will to the paranormal or at least it's

2781
01:47:15,060 --> 01:47:12,340
not a purposefully dark side a very

2782
01:47:16,680 --> 01:47:15,070
dangerous side which the last sort of

2783
01:47:19,410 --> 01:47:16,690
thing I like to talk about quickly is

2784
01:47:21,390 --> 01:47:19,420
the line and Swann case which we

2785
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:21,400
investigated when we were there and in

2786
01:47:25,470 --> 01:47:23,410
particular the one thing which still

2787
01:47:27,690 --> 01:47:25,480
resonates with me almost a year later

2788
01:47:29,310 --> 01:47:27,700
there was a painting you know it's not

2789
01:47:32,550 --> 01:47:29,320
like a van Gogh or something or when

2790
01:47:34,140 --> 01:47:32,560
Renoir writes it's sort of a cheap 70s

2791
01:47:36,270 --> 01:47:34,150
kind of knockoff sort of thing of a

2792
01:47:39,330 --> 01:47:36,280
woman with them with one of her breasts

2793
01:47:42,030 --> 01:47:39,340
exposed I don't provide these things but

2794
01:47:43,140 --> 01:47:42,040
there it is we're getting kind of kind

2795
01:47:44,940 --> 01:47:43,150
of raunchy here folks

2796
01:47:46,770 --> 01:47:44,950
let's not discuss such things I'm

2797
01:47:48,690 --> 01:47:46,780
kidding that's that's what the painting

2798
01:47:50,610 --> 01:47:48,700
is we actually had to not black it up

2799
01:47:54,810 --> 01:47:50,620
you know sort of fade out the exposed

2800
01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:54,820
area of the woman and family TV there

2801
01:47:59,550 --> 01:47:56,890
too yes

2802
01:48:01,260 --> 01:47:59,560
but the legend of the painting is Dave

2803
01:48:02,730 --> 01:48:01,270
correct me if I'm wrong that if you

2804
01:48:05,610 --> 01:48:02,740
touch the painting if you move the

2805
01:48:08,070 --> 01:48:05,620
painting then somebody will die I

2806
01:48:09,690 --> 01:48:08,080
believe that's what we what was reported

2807
01:48:12,540 --> 01:48:09,700
it Dave knows a little bit more about

2808
01:48:14,820 --> 01:48:12,550
the in-depth researcher found out the

2809
01:48:17,010 --> 01:48:14,830
Lightning swamp yeah what was the legend

2810
01:48:19,410 --> 01:48:17,020
on that painting yeah the legend is that

2811
01:48:23,160 --> 01:48:19,420
nobody will move this picture we see

2812
01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:23,170
over in the past people who have liba so

2813
01:48:27,870 --> 01:48:25,840
the picture has become a all themselves

2814
01:48:29,050 --> 01:48:27,880
or family members or friends have become

2815
01:48:32,230 --> 01:48:29,060
a lon

2816
01:48:35,890 --> 01:48:32,240
in some occasion modern ones passed away

2817
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:35,900
again legend folklore mythology or is it

2818
01:48:40,810 --> 01:48:38,090
there's the weird thing because being

2819
01:48:42,730 --> 01:48:40,820
the dumb idiot that I am you know so the

2820
01:48:43,900 --> 01:48:42,740
snarky skeptic what date you and I were

2821
01:48:45,550 --> 01:48:43,910
sitting in the basement Dave and I

2822
01:48:47,860 --> 01:48:45,560
reached over of course and I moved the

2823
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:47,870
painting well I sleep oh we the papers

2824
01:48:53,440 --> 01:48:51,290
bound to say you've done theirs to see

2825
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:53,450
which one of us were doing we lost so I

2826
01:48:56,590 --> 01:48:55,010
moved the painting and you know we joked

2827
01:48:58,870 --> 01:48:56,600
about it it's in the television episode

2828
01:48:59,860 --> 01:48:58,880
Dave and I had a good laugh and there

2829
01:49:02,200 --> 01:48:59,870
were five of us on the investigation

2830
01:49:03,970 --> 01:49:02,210
that night you're talking to three of

2831
01:49:05,730 --> 01:49:03,980
them now Holly was one of the other ones

2832
01:49:08,470 --> 01:49:05,740
and there was a member of the UPI a

2833
01:49:10,750 --> 01:49:08,480
another member who we won't name because

2834
01:49:12,700 --> 01:49:10,760
I told him we wouldn't but he was on the

2835
01:49:15,010 --> 01:49:12,710
investigation as well and you guys

2836
01:49:17,140 --> 01:49:15,020
showed up the next day because we were

2837
01:49:18,340 --> 01:49:17,150
off to another site we were expecting he

2838
01:49:20,020 --> 01:49:18,350
was gonna be there too I think with

2839
01:49:22,030 --> 01:49:20,030
shock like we were going to and he

2840
01:49:23,020 --> 01:49:22,040
wasn't there and we we asked why you

2841
01:49:24,730 --> 01:49:23,030
know why is he here

2842
01:49:28,180 --> 01:49:24,740
and why wasn't he there Dave

2843
01:49:30,700 --> 01:49:28,190
unfortunately and you know it's still a

2844
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:30,710
subject this day and you know with my

2845
01:49:34,090 --> 01:49:32,330
heart goes out to him his father passed

2846
01:49:35,530 --> 01:49:34,100
away they denied that the picture was

2847
01:49:39,700 --> 01:49:35,540
moved yeah same here

2848
01:49:44,350 --> 01:49:39,710
um big coincidence or not it would still

2849
01:49:46,090 --> 01:49:44,360
I know most of my inclination is say

2850
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:46,100
well of course it's a horrible tragic

2851
01:49:52,180 --> 01:49:48,170
coincidence but you know on the other

2852
01:49:55,180 --> 01:49:52,190
hand it's a pretty it's a pretty strange

2853
01:49:57,490 --> 01:49:55,190
coincidence given the story and what we

2854
01:49:59,650 --> 01:49:57,500
did that night and then to just have

2855
01:50:01,300 --> 01:49:59,660
that happen I mean I'm sure things

2856
01:50:02,770 --> 01:50:01,310
happen but eventually you run into

2857
01:50:05,530 --> 01:50:02,780
enough coincidences when you do these

2858
01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:05,540
kinds of things that coincidences stop

2859
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:08,050
being an explanation that makes sense

2860
01:50:13,240 --> 01:50:10,970
yeah you know it comes back to somebody

2861
01:50:14,710 --> 01:50:13,250
said to me once a friend in the United

2862
01:50:16,150 --> 01:50:14,720
States said to me once that when you get

2863
01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:16,160
involved in this kind of stuff and I

2864
01:50:21,190 --> 01:50:17,570
guess the last question maybe I'd leave

2865
01:50:22,540 --> 01:50:21,200
you guys with is he said to me then when

2866
01:50:24,130 --> 01:50:22,550
you get involved with this kind of stuff

2867
01:50:25,330 --> 01:50:24,140
you're probably in over your head no

2868
01:50:27,250 --> 01:50:25,340
matter how smart you are and we're all

2869
01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:27,260
smart guys but no matter how smart you

2870
01:50:30,370 --> 01:50:28,610
are or how smart you think you are or

2871
01:50:32,260 --> 01:50:30,380
what you know you might be dealing with

2872
01:50:33,850 --> 01:50:32,270
things that are beyond whatever

2873
01:50:35,710 --> 01:50:33,860
knowledge face we have beyond our

2874
01:50:37,270 --> 01:50:35,720
ability to control question I'd ask you

2875
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:37,280
guys is do you ever feel because I

2876
01:50:40,730 --> 01:50:38,730
certainly felt that way after the

2877
01:50:43,250 --> 01:50:40,740
the line in Swan with the painting and

2878
01:50:44,930 --> 01:50:43,260
the death and in shock like - and in

2879
01:50:46,190 --> 01:50:44,940
other places that I went during the

2880
01:50:48,110 --> 01:50:46,200
course of this series do you guys ever

2881
01:50:50,180 --> 01:50:48,120
feel that way Steve when you deal with

2882
01:50:52,100 --> 01:50:50,190
the poltergeist stuff Dave when you have

2883
01:50:53,180 --> 01:50:52,110
the time slip what what does this all

2884
01:50:56,060 --> 01:50:53,190
mean to you what have your experiences

2885
01:50:57,380 --> 01:50:56,070
brought to you do you feel like you know

2886
01:50:59,570 --> 01:50:57,390
that's something that's beyond your

2887
01:51:02,090 --> 01:50:59,580
control does it scare you what's your

2888
01:51:03,830 --> 01:51:02,100
song what's our take away from this to

2889
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:03,840
me I mean I would introduce poltergeist

2890
01:51:09,260 --> 01:51:06,210
phenomena just randomly through a news

2891
01:51:11,720 --> 01:51:09,270
item but introducing some generator

2892
01:51:13,640 --> 01:51:11,730
didn't expect to I thought a lot of it

2893
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:13,650
was you know do a rational explanations

2894
01:51:17,540 --> 01:51:15,690
and things but it certainly proved to me

2895
01:51:20,350 --> 01:51:17,550
that since in 1995 and I've had that

2896
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:20,360
experience I really have delved into

2897
01:51:26,780 --> 01:51:23,730
parapsychology and further and and today

2898
01:51:28,990 --> 01:51:26,790
I'm still trying to work out how these

2899
01:51:31,730 --> 01:51:29,000
experiences can happen without

2900
01:51:33,680 --> 01:51:31,740
unfortunately very good answers

2901
01:51:35,660 --> 01:51:33,690
unfortunately and I think if we're going

2902
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:35,670
to advance this subject because as you

2903
01:51:39,320 --> 01:51:36,810
know you know psychology and

2904
01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:39,330
parapsychology is very static it doesn't

2905
01:51:42,500 --> 01:51:40,890
seem to move along very quickly not on

2906
01:51:44,570 --> 01:51:42,510
new material doesn't come forward very

2907
01:51:46,940 --> 01:51:44,580
often and I think we do need to start

2908
01:51:49,070 --> 01:51:46,950
looking at that aspects of science in a

2909
01:51:51,290 --> 01:51:49,080
different way and maybe doing these

2910
01:51:53,210 --> 01:51:51,300
things in a different way because we've

2911
01:51:55,580 --> 01:51:53,220
certainly exhausted we must have

2912
01:51:57,170 --> 01:51:55,590
exhausted the normal ways we investigate

2913
01:51:58,910 --> 01:51:57,180
and research this type of number because

2914
01:52:01,670 --> 01:51:58,920
of the lessons we've been involved in it

2915
01:52:04,040 --> 01:52:01,680
so we are thinking for me I mean it says

2916
01:52:07,790 --> 01:52:04,050
changed my life and I think that the

2917
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:07,800
reason why I put myself into 100% now is

2918
01:52:11,780 --> 01:52:10,170
because I'm experiencing firsthand about

2919
01:52:13,370 --> 01:52:11,790
the universe that experiences have been

2920
01:52:14,870 --> 01:52:13,380
in the right place at the right time and

2921
01:52:16,790 --> 01:52:14,880
if I need to do experience those things

2922
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:16,800
I think that you will start asking

2923
01:52:21,710 --> 01:52:19,010
questions especially about your own

2924
01:52:23,690 --> 01:52:21,720
experiences as well so I'm forgetting I

2925
01:52:25,880 --> 01:52:23,700
mean like dos mentioned there has been a

2926
01:52:27,890 --> 01:52:25,890
couple of times when he has sometimes

2927
01:52:31,460 --> 01:52:27,900
refused to accept the fact I could be a

2928
01:52:32,990 --> 01:52:31,470
paranormal experience and and sometimes

2929
01:52:34,580 --> 01:52:33,000
I say well there is paranormal if you

2930
01:52:36,470 --> 01:52:34,590
don't know you if you kind of explain it

2931
01:52:38,480 --> 01:52:36,480
you know if all rational explanation is

2932
01:52:40,820 --> 01:52:38,490
gone then he actually order is the only

2933
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:40,830
plausible approach and sometimes it's

2934
01:52:44,360 --> 01:52:43,170
hard to accept that

2935
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:44,370
you know because you don't really know

2936
01:52:47,650 --> 01:52:45,930
what the paranormal should really

2937
01:52:49,870 --> 01:52:47,660
consist of guys

2938
01:52:52,930 --> 01:52:49,880
we just are getting near the rap of this

2939
01:52:54,910 --> 01:52:52,940
thing here now obviously we're not going

2940
01:52:56,350 --> 01:52:54,920
to solve all the paranormal mysteries on

2941
01:53:00,220 --> 01:52:56,360
the show at least this particular

2942
01:53:03,430 --> 01:53:00,230
episode oh I hope we could but let me

2943
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:03,440
ask you separately here Steve what do

2944
01:53:07,540 --> 01:53:05,570
you think we take away from this is this

2945
01:53:09,070 --> 01:53:07,550
something we'll ever get solved I think

2946
01:53:11,470 --> 01:53:09,080
the only way we're going to ever solve

2947
01:53:13,390 --> 01:53:11,480
it is when we start changing the ways

2948
01:53:16,390 --> 01:53:13,400
and the methods we investigate and

2949
01:53:18,910 --> 01:53:16,400
research this because unfortunately is

2950
01:53:21,070 --> 01:53:18,920
to do things in a scientific manner we

2951
01:53:22,630 --> 01:53:21,080
restrain ourselves from from doing all

2952
01:53:24,820 --> 01:53:22,640
the things which might be necessary

2953
01:53:28,150 --> 01:53:24,830
force to get answers okay love you Dave

2954
01:53:30,070 --> 01:53:28,160
a subject itself in the UK I mean not

2955
01:53:32,590 --> 01:53:30,080
that directly involves me in the UK at

2956
01:53:34,630 --> 01:53:32,600
the moment if so why did Bain did it it

2957
01:53:37,060 --> 01:53:34,640
just needs to be drawn back in a little

2958
01:53:39,790 --> 01:53:37,070
bit and people need to be reminded it's

2959
01:53:42,340 --> 01:53:39,800
not all hey let's go out on our spooky

2960
01:53:44,770 --> 01:53:42,350
night you know research does needs to be

2961
01:53:47,050 --> 01:53:44,780
done to to take the subject forward I

2962
01:53:49,480 --> 01:53:47,060
don't think we're we in our lifetime are

2963
01:53:51,550 --> 01:53:49,490
going to be able to explain most of the

2964
01:53:54,040 --> 01:53:51,560
things that take place I would like to

2965
01:53:56,380 --> 01:53:54,050
but I just don't think it's very likely

2966
01:53:58,630 --> 01:53:56,390
at all I mean it could be a possibility

2967
01:54:00,760 --> 01:53:58,640
that if were able to explain the

2968
01:54:02,290 --> 01:54:00,770
paranormal we could be the people they

2969
01:54:04,180 --> 01:54:02,300
were actually bringing down religion at

2970
01:54:06,280 --> 01:54:04,190
the same time and that's something I

2971
01:54:10,260 --> 01:54:06,290
wouldn't want to really do because I

2972
01:54:13,150 --> 01:54:10,270
would get like a student beaten up sewer

2973
01:54:15,340 --> 01:54:13,160
are we even meant to resolve all these

2974
01:54:17,470 --> 01:54:15,350
mysteries or Final Solution were well on

2975
01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:17,480
everything one mystery finding one

2976
01:54:24,100 --> 01:54:21,890
solution take us to another mystery the

2977
01:54:27,280 --> 01:54:24,110
best case for us to say that is is the

2978
01:54:28,420 --> 01:54:27,290
wire heart a new toxin - I mentioned

2979
01:54:30,540 --> 01:54:28,430
before about all the different things

2980
01:54:34,060 --> 01:54:30,550
that were reported and we were able to

2981
01:54:35,650 --> 01:54:34,070
discount unfortunately we found more

2982
01:54:37,330 --> 01:54:35,660
questions that need resolving and we

2983
01:54:39,310 --> 01:54:37,340
need to spend a lot more time at the

2984
01:54:41,500 --> 01:54:39,320
location because the amount of things

2985
01:54:43,570 --> 01:54:41,510
that we've come up with unfortunately or

2986
01:54:45,220 --> 01:54:43,580
fortunately the case maybe does it all

2987
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:45,230
come down to a personal thing at the end

2988
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:47,210
of the day Steve is it maybe the

2989
01:54:52,990 --> 01:54:49,730
paranormal is just mono e mono us versus

2990
01:54:54,550 --> 01:54:53,000
whatever it is in each depends on how

2991
01:54:56,260 --> 01:54:54,560
you want to perceive the paranormal I

2992
01:54:58,120 --> 01:54:56,270
mean most people perceive that some type

2993
01:54:59,860 --> 01:54:58,130
of interaction is with you cells you

2994
01:55:01,990 --> 01:54:59,870
know they you go along

2995
01:55:03,460 --> 01:55:02,000
normal life and you may experience some

2996
01:55:05,920 --> 01:55:03,470
things which just don't fall into our

2997
01:55:08,050 --> 01:55:05,930
normal you know normality so you end up

2998
01:55:09,820 --> 01:55:08,060
being paranormal however though there

2999
01:55:11,590 --> 01:55:09,830
are lots of other new theories which are

3000
01:55:14,110 --> 01:55:11,600
out there and one of the latest ones is

3001
01:55:16,360 --> 01:55:14,120
that paranormal phenomena is some type

3002
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:16,370
of energy affects the mind and the brain

3003
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:18,530
into believing that you're having an

3004
01:55:22,780 --> 01:55:21,170
experience now that's a whole new bomb

3005
01:55:25,180 --> 01:55:22,790
came nearly we're talking about they're

3006
01:55:27,340 --> 01:55:25,190
talking about how certain energy is

3007
01:55:28,690 --> 01:55:27,350
called cause you to believe that you

3008
01:55:30,820 --> 01:55:28,700
have those experiences because at the

3009
01:55:32,410 --> 01:55:30,830
end of the day your brain is everything

3010
01:55:34,060 --> 01:55:32,420
we experience in life touch feel smell

3011
01:55:36,790 --> 01:55:34,070
and everything is all massive electrical

3012
01:55:39,160 --> 01:55:36,800
impulses and if something can generate a

3013
01:55:41,380 --> 01:55:39,170
certain amount of some form of unknown

3014
01:55:42,970 --> 01:55:41,390
energy that can somehow adversely affect

3015
01:55:45,940 --> 01:55:42,980
the mind and the brain into thinking

3016
01:55:47,200 --> 01:55:45,950
it's having those experiences then maybe

3017
01:55:49,090 --> 01:55:47,210
that's another avenue we need to

3018
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:49,100
approach we'll have to look at that let

3019
01:55:52,750 --> 01:55:51,290
me ask you guys separately to tell us

3020
01:55:55,570 --> 01:55:52,760
about the books and where to get a copy

3021
01:55:58,060 --> 01:55:55,580
Dave paranormal reality ghosts UFOs and

3022
01:55:59,950 --> 01:55:58,070
Pussycats can we find a copy in the US

3023
01:56:03,220 --> 01:55:59,960
what's it fundamentally about you say

3024
01:56:05,650 --> 01:56:03,230
only can the book itself is most not

3025
01:56:07,300 --> 01:56:05,660
dissimilar to speeds it's look in the

3026
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:07,310
cases that I've been involved in over

3027
01:56:11,560 --> 01:56:10,370
the past 13 14 years some of them I bet

3028
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:11,570
light-hearted some of them quite

3029
01:56:17,380 --> 01:56:13,850
in-depth looking at some of the hoaxes

3030
01:56:26,550 --> 01:56:17,390
that we've been privy to and you can

3031
01:56:36,550 --> 01:56:33,550
purchase a kit directly to live Calm

3032
01:56:40,930 --> 01:56:36,560
it's available don't knowwe is in US

3033
01:56:42,610 --> 01:56:40,940
dollars it's 495 in UK pounds and it's

3034
01:56:44,290 --> 01:56:42,620
posted in parking on top of that well

3035
01:56:46,180 --> 01:56:44,300
I'm sure if you buy - please book at the

3036
01:56:48,670 --> 01:56:46,190
same time the price of postage of

3037
01:56:51,430 --> 01:56:48,680
parking all come right down and you're

3038
01:56:53,650 --> 01:56:51,440
getting double the pleasure Steve like

3039
01:56:55,630 --> 01:56:53,660
strange happenings memoirs of a

3040
01:56:57,760 --> 01:56:55,640
paranormal investigator I guess that's

3041
01:56:59,140 --> 01:56:57,770
gonna have almost like a book 1 right it

3042
01:57:01,030 --> 01:56:59,150
is actually because I am actually

3043
01:57:03,040 --> 01:57:01,040
working on the second book he's kind of

3044
01:57:03,870 --> 01:57:03,050
going in 10 years episodes actually at

3045
01:57:05,700 --> 01:57:03,880
the moment

3046
01:57:07,260 --> 01:57:05,710
what I've done is I've taken me I mean

3047
01:57:09,480 --> 01:57:07,270
I've been involved in so many cases over

3048
01:57:12,570 --> 01:57:09,490
the years or the first book consists of

3049
01:57:14,190 --> 01:57:12,580
about 22 of the best investigations I

3050
01:57:16,260 --> 01:57:14,200
was involved in the middle first ten

3051
01:57:18,540 --> 01:57:16,270
years of investigating and researching

3052
01:57:20,990 --> 01:57:18,550
this phenomena it's a little bit more of

3053
01:57:23,610 --> 01:57:21,000
the scientific stance on on that book

3054
01:57:25,980 --> 01:57:23,620
regarding the research and what was

3055
01:57:27,510 --> 01:57:25,990
undertaken to come to the conclusions

3056
01:57:29,970 --> 01:57:27,520
Brigade the book he's a lot about

3057
01:57:32,730 --> 01:57:29,980
syndromes 24 pages it's a little bit a

3058
01:57:36,030 --> 01:57:32,740
little bit larger and the price all on

3059
01:57:38,790 --> 01:57:36,040
that particular book use its powers 95

3060
01:57:40,470 --> 01:57:38,800
in British perils well because I'll beim

3061
01:57:44,510 --> 01:57:40,480
about the same place as I could same

3062
01:57:54,180 --> 01:57:52,080
www.liberaloasis.com those books as well

3063
01:57:56,580 --> 01:57:54,190
you know what we also have links on our

3064
01:57:59,070 --> 01:57:56,590
site so when you mentioned the books at

3065
01:58:01,470 --> 01:57:59,080
the para cast come and our forums forum

3066
01:58:02,970 --> 01:58:01,480
not the power cast calm you click on the

3067
01:58:05,340 --> 01:58:02,980
links you go right to the book ordering

3068
01:58:07,140 --> 01:58:05,350
page and the amount of money will be in

3069
01:58:09,450 --> 01:58:07,150
US dollars for the US or whatever

3070
01:58:11,190 --> 01:58:09,460
country you're in Paul Campbell before

3071
01:58:13,050 --> 01:58:11,200
we let you leave the door with help us

3072
01:58:14,040 --> 01:58:13,060
so what are you working on what's gonna

3073
01:58:15,960 --> 01:58:14,050
come from

3074
01:58:18,540 --> 01:58:15,970
Paul Kimball in the next few months well

3075
01:58:21,270 --> 01:58:18,550
I just finished the final post audio on

3076
01:58:23,550 --> 01:58:21,280
my first feature film actually which is

3077
01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:23,560
about vampires so there you go even when

3078
01:58:28,140 --> 01:58:25,450
I move into the realm of fiction I can't

3079
01:58:29,640 --> 01:58:28,150
get away from the paranormal and now

3080
01:58:31,050 --> 01:58:29,650
that that's done I'll take a month off

3081
01:58:33,510 --> 01:58:31,060
to do some paperwork and then it's

3082
01:58:35,310 --> 01:58:33,520
probably back to combination of

3083
01:58:36,750 --> 01:58:35,320
documentaries got some documentaries

3084
01:58:39,840 --> 01:58:36,760
since some television shows coming up

3085
01:58:41,460 --> 01:58:39,850
and also a feature film my next feature

3086
01:58:43,860 --> 01:58:41,470
film is a science fiction film that I

3087
01:58:46,140 --> 01:58:43,870
co-wrote with the late Mac Tony's before

3088
01:58:48,540 --> 01:58:46,150
he passed away so it'll be one of Mac's

3089
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:48,550
based on a short story you did so it'll

3090
01:58:52,410 --> 01:58:50,530
be one of the last things along with his

3091
01:58:54,750 --> 01:58:52,420
upcoming crypto terrestrial book which

3092
01:58:56,850 --> 01:58:54,760
is out this month which I recommend

3093
01:58:58,920 --> 01:58:56,860
everybody buys gonna be a big one big

3094
01:59:01,020 --> 01:58:58,930
big book that feature film that he and I

3095
01:59:02,100 --> 01:59:01,030
co-wrote before he died so so that's

3096
01:59:04,470 --> 01:59:02,110
something that I'm really looking

3097
01:59:07,170 --> 01:59:04,480
forward to over the next year thank you

3098
01:59:09,330 --> 01:59:07,180
very much Dave Sadler Steve Mira and

3099
01:59:11,310 --> 01:59:09,340
especially Paul Kimball thank you all

3100
01:59:13,080 --> 01:59:11,320
for joining us this week um the power

3101
01:59:15,270 --> 01:59:13,090
cast

3102
01:59:17,760 --> 01:59:15,280
thanks chief

3103
01:59:21,250 --> 01:59:17,770
[Music]

3104
01:59:24,040 --> 01:59:21,260
the para cast with gene Steinberg and

3105
01:59:26,830 --> 01:59:24,050
David DNA is a production of making the

3106
01:59:29,560 --> 01:59:26,840
impossible Incorporated join us next

3107
01:59:35,250 --> 01:59:29,570
week for a new adventure in the power